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[Sir Pseudonymous]

I'm not going to bang out the math-hammer here, but just want to note four things:
1)Railguns are S10 AP1 compared to S9 AP2 lascannons, making them significantly more lethal.
2)Broadsides should generally have some form of cover, vendettas almost never do.
3)Shield drones increase the survivability of Broadsides by quite a bit.
4)It takes quite a bit more firepower to down a team of broadsides than a vendetta. I need 1 good damage roll to stop a vendetta, as opposed to 2-4 bad saves to shut down a broadside team without shield drones. This means that stuff like autocannons and Assault cannons are significantly stronger against Vendettas.

Oh shit you're right. I was thinking lascannons were 72" S10 AP1 weapons too... :/ Of course, S9 AP2 is still enough to instakill the T4 2+ broadsides on a wound, with no chance of a save...

So perhaps a lone vendetta can't go head to head with a properly positioned and outfitted broadside squad (which would be significantly more expensive, too, with the cheapest squad being 75, for a lone broadside and the cheapest equipment available, to 300 for the full three, each with a drone controller and two shield drones(which, coincidentally, turns them into a more or less stationary platform). But I still put my money on IG, since the vendetta is hardly the only trick they have their sleeves (like fuckwin artillery, which the Tau do not have. Nor does really anyone to the extent the IG do).

[BishopX]

I agree that IG screws most people over harder than Tau does. But the point remains that the Tau Empire seems to enjoy taking me out behind the woodshed more than the imperial guard does.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

In other news, I solved the problem I was having trying to calculate the probability of exact numbers of wounds. After banging my head against the proverbial brick wall for hours trying to come up with an algorithm to solve the problem, I realized the sanest solution: just write a script that takes the target die numbers and uses a random function to resolve the attacks one hundred thousand times, then print the percentage of each wound number out of the total! Brute force: IT'S THE IMPERIAL WAY!

The results are accurate to within about one percent.


Just for shiggles, let's see what it churns out for the vendetta vs. broadside fight:
Lascannons:
 0 wounds: 5%
 1 wound exactly: 26%
 1 wound or more: 94%
 2 wounds exactly: 44%
 2 wounds or more: 68%
 3 wounds exactly: 24%

Heavy Bolters:
 0 wounds exactly: 71%
 1 wound exactly: 25%
 1 or more wounds: 29%
 2 wounds exactly: 4%
Rest are within the margin of error from zero.

Two Broadsides with shield drones (the script doesn't handle vehicles, but we'll just consider it to have a save of 4+ (50% chance of save), since on a damage of roll of 4+ it's a wrecked or exploded result (50% to die), also, ignoring glancing hits because I'm not quite sure how to represent them here, I assume they'd add about 10% or so to the kill chance) would have a 44% chance to kill the vendetta. Two broadsides with target arrays would have a 51% chance to kill it. There's a higher chance they'll immobilize it or destroy a weapon, but this script doesn't handle that at the moment. It probably will, at some point, but that's just more work I don't feel like doing right now.
Two Broadsides with shield drones:
 One miss: 27%
 Two misses: 14%
 One shaken: 6%
 Two shaken: .2% (less than roughly estimated margin of error, but consistent through several runs, if rounding (up) to the nearest tenth)
 One stunned: 13%
 Two stunned: 1%
 One weapon destroyed: 13%
 Two weapons destroyed: 1%
 One immobilized: 13%
 Two immobilized: 1%
 Wrecked: 16%
 Exploded: 30%

In cases where a Wrecked or Explodes! result occurred at least once, no other results were counted for the set, with Explodes! taking preference as it overrules the others. When I feel like fixing the script further, giving it sane input with regex, and expanding the number of options (to accommodate squadrons, rending weapons, etc), that'll be made smarter (only doing it when there's a reason to know what else might have happened, for instance). Also note that the percentages won't add up to one hundred, due to overlap and rounding.


I've never lost to Tau, but then I suppose I've only played a few games against inexperienced players, whereas I've won practically every IG game I've had time to finish (games can take so long on vassal they occasionally don't get finished :/ ).

Edit: Increased the script to handle attacks on vehicles, don't know if it provides good numbers, but I see no reason for it not to, since it's just running through the steps to calculate an attack on a vehicle enough times to get statistically solid numbers from it.

[userpay]

I don't remember who it was, I think it was Sir, always fielded two vendettas when he played IG's which is pretty big advantage at 500 points. Considering I play nids and Tau the Tau are best situated in this situation and I always lost because he'd break los before I could get good shots off with the broadsides at the vendettas. Then again I never made use of the shield drones...

[Sir Pseudonymous]

I don't remember who it was, I think it was Sir, always fielded two vendettas when he played IG's which is pretty big advantage at 500 points. Considering I play nids and Tau the Tau are best situated in this situation and I always lost because he'd break los before I could get good shots off with the broadsides at the vendettas. Then again I never made use of the shield drones...

Code: [Select]

IG: 500
  Lord Commissar +70: 70

  Veteran Squad +70x2: 160
    -Heavy Bolter +10x2
 
  Vendetta +130: 140
    -Heavy Bolters +10
  Vendetta +130: 130That was the first army I ever played with, though I'm reasonably certain I only played you once with it (aside from one doubles game where my partner left during his first round, so we all called it quits ), during which time I did everything I could to keep the vendettas out of LoS from the broadsides, while hunting crisis suits and fire warriors with them. I think I eked out a point victory by taking down the crisis suits and fire warriors, though it was otherwise a draw since neither player was annihilated.

The other times I played you I used a loldar jetbike army or daemons, I think.

[Jackrabbit]

I remember the time you played Cthulhu and he repeatedly left his HQ unit in clear line of sight to your Vendettas, but far back enough that he couldn't shoot you.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

I remember the time you played Cthulhu and he repeatedly left his HQ unit in clear line of sight to your Vendettas, but far back enough that he couldn't shoot you.

What was he playing with?

[Jackrabbit]

Kheeeeooooooossss.

Kheeeooooss isss strunnnng

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Oh, I remember it now. I think that might have been the first game I played... And I somehow won, despite making numerous terrible decisions as a result of having no clue what I was doing.

[userpay]

I don't remember who it was, I think it was Sir, always fielded two vendettas when he played IG's which is pretty big advantage at 500 points. Considering I play nids and Tau the Tau are best situated in this situation and I always lost because he'd break los before I could get good shots off with the broadsides at the vendettas. Then again I never made use of the shield drones...

Code: [Select]

IG: 500
  Lord Commissar +70: 70

  Veteran Squad +70x2: 160
    -Heavy Bolter +10x2
 
  Vendetta +130: 140
    -Heavy Bolters +10
  Vendetta +130: 130That was the first army I ever played with, though I'm reasonably certain I only played you once with it (aside from one doubles game where my partner left during his first round, so we all called it quits ), during which time I did everything I could to keep the vendettas out of LoS from the broadsides, while hunting crisis suits and fire warriors with them. I think I eked out a point victory by taking down the crisis suits and fire warriors, though it was otherwise a draw since neither player was annihilated.

The other times I played you I used a loldar jetbike army or daemons, I think.

I think your getting your loldar jetbike army/daemon army and the IG one mixed up, I know I only played the first two once each and I'm pretty sure I've played that type of IG set up more than once against you. That said I might get back into this to try some new combos... tomorrow mayhaps.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

I don't remember who it was, I think it was Sir, always fielded two vendettas when he played IG's which is pretty big advantage at 500 points. Considering I play nids and Tau the Tau are best situated in this situation and I always lost because he'd break los before I could get good shots off with the broadsides at the vendettas. Then again I never made use of the shield drones...

Code: [Select]

IG: 500
  Lord Commissar +70: 70

  Veteran Squad +70x2: 160
    -Heavy Bolter +10x2
 
  Vendetta +130: 140
    -Heavy Bolters +10
  Vendetta +130: 130That was the first army I ever played with, though I'm reasonably certain I only played you once with it (aside from one doubles game where my partner left during his first round, so we all called it quits ), during which time I did everything I could to keep the vendettas out of LoS from the broadsides, while hunting crisis suits and fire warriors with them. I think I eked out a point victory by taking down the crisis suits and fire warriors, though it was otherwise a draw since neither player was annihilated.

The other times I played you I used a loldar jetbike army or daemons, I think.

I think your getting your loldar jetbike army/daemon army and the IG one mixed up, I know I only played the first two once each and I'm pretty sure I've played that type of IG set up more than once against you. That said I might get back into this to try some new combos... tomorrow mayhaps.

First game: jetbikes: I remember jumping lances over a wall to attack your hammerhead, fairly certain I (perhaps later) talked about how awesome broadsides were.
Second game: IG with vendettas: a cluttered map with a lot of buildings, you devastated one of my vet squads with the broadsides, I took out your crisis suits with the vendettas, and damaged at least one unit of fire warriors with the heavy bolters on the vendettas, before spending the rest of the match hiding behind buildings so the broadsides couldn't attack me.
Third game: Doubles match, me and an ork player, who left in the first round, game never finished.
Fourth(at least, I think this was against you): daemons against tyranids: it turned into a meatgrinder with plaguebearers against gaunts and a hive tyrant, then daemonettes vs genestealers and a carnifex.


The fact that all this poured into my head on thinking of "games I played against you" kind of unnerves me... If there were other games, nothing memorable happened.

I need to get back into playing 40k over vassal. I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to catch up to 5e and play V40K, but now he's started playing magic the gathering despite my warnings/mockery (and insists on calling "red" "fire" and "black" "dark", to which I am forced to inquire as to why the fuck he's playing pokemon).

[Aqizzar]

I'm still the only guy here who wants to try playing Gorkamorka aren't I?  It looks really cool, and the books are free since GW discontinued them.  They're not on the Specialist Games site anymore because they're tards, but it's basically a Orkified version of Necromunda anyway.

[dwarfguy2]

necrowhata?

[Jackrabbit]

Evidently the answer is yes, you are the only one. I've no idea what that is either.

[Aqizzar]

You guys could Google it.  Or search this thread for when I've rambled about it before.

Necromunda was a smaller-scale wargame Games Workshop used to make.  It was a spin-off of Warhammer 40k proper, using most of the same gameplay mechanics. You control a gang of outlaws in the basement of a hivecity, fighting other gangs of outlaws.  Each model is tracked separately, and each player usually has 5-10 models.  Buying equipment and weapons, rolling for injuries after battle, all that good combat-RPG stuff.  The only real problem was that you were still using models, so you had to either lock yourself to certain equipment setups or do alterations all the time (or just houserule everything and fuck the what-you-see-is-what-you-get rule, because seriously).  Basically, picture all the best shootouts from Firefly or Star Wars or any other space-western, and give it a 40k gloss.

Gorkamorka was the same general system, but tweaked to play a hilarious green-skinned clowncar rendition of The Road Warrior, complete with vehicles and heavy weapons which Necromunda never really had.  It's a little wonky to learn, but it's essentially 40k with fewer models and more details.  And it's all about Orks running each other over with motorcycles, and persistent stat and equipment tracking.