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Author Topic: Warhammer 40k  (Read 173796 times)

Neruz

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2235 on: April 17, 2010, 03:36:45 am »

I've never been a huge fan of Deff Dreads and Killa Kans.


Zzap guns are definitely not worth it in a 1k point army, swap them out for more boyz, or more Lootas.

I would seriously consider at least one Trukk too; you need some fast attack to distract long ranged killy like the Tau. Lootas are awesome though, very swingy, but awesome.

Jackrabbit

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2236 on: April 17, 2010, 03:46:47 am »

Why don't you like Deff Dreads?
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Neruz

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2237 on: April 17, 2010, 03:56:39 am »

I'm not a huge fan of most walkers and vechs to be honest; the idea of vechs is to have armor, thus making them hard to kill, but if you get unlucky they go down in a single shot, wheras if you have 20 Boyz, no matter how unlucky you get, they must suffer 20 wounds to be destroyed, that means they have to be shot at least 20 times (or 20 of them need to be caught in an AoE, but AoE's are another thing entirely).

High cost units tend to end up with massive targets painted on their faces, and most races have some long range way to deal with those targets. In 1000 point armies i find that you're usually much better off investing in larger numbers of smaller units.


I suspect the reason for this is because vehicles are horribly overpriced, this is because if you don't have an antivech unit, then they're basically indestructable, but if you do have one, then they drop like flies.

The Toaster Monolith is the only vech that i personally feel is reasonably priced, and that's because it's sufficiently Hueg that even if your enemy has antivech measures, it still takes a concerted effort to bring down, which, for 235 non phase-out points a pop, it bloody well should.



Basically, with the Deff Dread, is the Deff Dread as good as 20 Shoota Boyz without Big Shootas? Can it take as much punishment? Not really; if your enemy has no anti-vehicle measures then it's indestructable, but if he does then it'll drop right quick. Can it do as much damage? Nope; the Shoota Boyz with their 40 attacks will far outpace it, and the Shoota Boyz have the advantage of gradually reducing firepower, wheras once the Dread is out, it's out.



I'm not saying expensive units don't have their places, sometimes they're well worth it, and in larger games where you start to max out your troop allotment they become incredible, but i usually wouldn't consider deploying any walkers or vechs at anything less than 1500 points.


The other thing you have to remember in 1000 point armies is that with only 1000 points, a good hard vech is horrifically lethal, IF and only if it cannot be countered. As such everyone always ensures they have some hard-hitting anti-vehicle units in their 1k point armies, because you just flat out cannot afford to come up against an army with vehicles and not have any anti-vehicle units. What this ironically means is that in 1k point tournies, vehicles aren't very useful.




I should also note that some vechs, like Trukks, are the exception to the rule, as they're cheap enough and useful enough to be viable. IG's vechs are also cheap enough to be viable (and rightly so).



The other thing about Walkers is they still only move that puny 6' per turn, blah!

Jackrabbit

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2238 on: April 17, 2010, 04:12:07 am »

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks. Oh, here's my re-done Wall 'O Lead army. Minus walkers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Neruz

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2239 on: April 17, 2010, 07:35:44 am »

Get Power Klaws on those Choppa Nobz and Boarding Planks on those trucks; the Nobz with Power Klaws will serve as your antivehicle force. A Power Klaw equipped Nob makes mincemeat of any vech he gets into melee combat with, and the only thing worse for a vech than a Power Klaw on a Nob is a Power Klaw on a Nob that moves 12' per turn.

I'd also drop the Wreckin' Balls, probably not worth it; Trukks tend to get asploded during the first or second rounds and rarely live long enough to justify anything but the bare essentials and perhaps an 'Ard Case and Armor Plates. The Ram is useful for crossing DT though.

Jackrabbit

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2240 on: April 17, 2010, 07:39:57 am »

Good plan, although it was my intention for the Lootas to serve as an anti-vehicle unit. They have a decent chance of killing anything 12 and under, and the Kustom Mega Blasters can plaster vehicles and infantry if they get the chance.
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Neruz

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2241 on: April 17, 2010, 07:46:59 am »

Lootas are real swingy; don't rely on them for anything, especially something as vital as anti-vehicle.


Lootas are always option #2. They're the best option #2 in the entire game, but they're still always #2, simply because they're unreliable. Never rely on them for primary anything, because the Dice hate you and will fail you when you need them, but as secondary support units Lootas are absolutely unbeatable.

--EDIT--

WHOA WHOA WHOA? Meks on your Lootas? Bad Jackrabbit: If your Meks are within range to use their Kustom Mega Blastaz, then the enemy is too close to your Lootas. Lootas are a long ranged artillery support unit; stick a Big Mek near em with a Kustom Force Field for the cover save and let them plink away.


Remember; Deffguns are Heavy Weapons, that means they can't shoot and move at the same time, which means if you want your Kustom Mega Blasterz to get into firing range, the enemy vech has to come to you, and that is never a situation you want to be in.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 07:49:28 am by Neruz »
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2242 on: April 17, 2010, 07:48:58 am »

Oh that's what you meant by swingy.

Yeah, that's a good plan. Do that.
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Neruz

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2243 on: April 17, 2010, 07:49:42 am »

See above edit. Meks bad.

userpay

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2244 on: April 18, 2010, 02:14:11 pm »

Geh I really need to build a new nid army with the new rulebook and get back into this.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2245 on: April 18, 2010, 02:18:27 pm »

I need to actually start painting my models. They're just sitting there.
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Org

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2246 on: April 18, 2010, 02:21:02 pm »

I need to actually start painting my models. They're just sitting there.
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Org

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2247 on: April 18, 2010, 02:22:27 pm »

Lootas are real swingy; don't rely on them for anything, especially something as vital as anti-vehicle.


Lootas are always option #2. They're the best option #2 in the entire game, but they're still always #2, simply because they're unreliable. Never rely on them for primary anything, because the Dice hate you and will fail you when you need them, but as secondary support units Lootas are absolutely unbeatable.

--EDIT--

WHOA WHOA WHOA? Meks on your Lootas? Bad Jackrabbit: If your Meks are within range to use their Kustom Mega Blastaz, then the enemy is too close to your Lootas. Lootas are a long ranged artillery support unit; stick a Big Mek near em with a Kustom Force Field for the cover save and let them plink away.


Remember; Deffguns are Heavy Weapons, that means they can't shoot and move at the same time, which means if you want your Kustom Mega Blasterz to get into firing range, the enemy vech has to come to you, and that is never a situation you want to be in.
Ewww. Kustom mega blastas? If you use meks(dont), use a big shoota.
If we are talking about big meks, ewww, use the shokk attack gun.
Which is somewhat reliable.or a KFF
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2248 on: April 18, 2010, 02:23:45 pm »

Notice my Shokk Attack Gun.

See above edit. Meks bad.

Gah! I want to get a kustom force field but I just. Don't. Have. The. Points.

It's infuriating.
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Org

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2249 on: April 18, 2010, 02:24:26 pm »

Notice my Shokk Attack Gun.

See above edit. Meks bad.

Gah! I want to get a kustom force field but I just. Don't. Have. The. Points.

It's infuriating.
....Shokk attack gun cost more then a KFF....IIRC
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