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[Org]

Toonyman is srs when he is serious.

Wow. Thats like the only time I havent seen Toony all crazy. Huh.

And yeah, CJ, think about this:There is always someone worse off than you. NO Matter what.

[Enzo]

Preemptively : this is a touchy subject. forgive me.

Going to have to agree with josh this one. He's articulating this better than I could, probably. But to address the question Nilocy presented, the basic reasoning behind people with suicidal tendencies is :
1) You can't convince yourself the happy parts of life will ever outweigh the painful parts.
2) You feel your destructive impact on the world outweighs your positive impact, and the world would be better off without you.
3) Complete nihilistic grief. Nothing matters, so why bother?
It's hard to quantify suffering, but briefly having suicide cross your mind after you get dumped (or whatever) is totally not the same thing as being suicidally depressed. But I suppose I'm simply reworded what's already been stated, I can't really add anything of substance there. I can however, rant about depression.

I've observed suicidal depression from both sides of the fence and it simply disgusts me that nowadays depression is trendy.  "I am/was suicidal", often means little more than "take me seriously." Kids spend hours on clothes and makeup trying to look the most depressed (which is, clearly, a complete farce because the kid who's really depressed doesn't give a shit how he looks). It's fucking sick, and it infuriates me.

[Armok]

I have occasionally considered suicide, however there are three reasons why such considerations are unlikely to become serious:

1) I have a loved one that depends on me (very badly, for survival... there is no risk or problems involved as long as I'm alive thou so don't feel sorry for me or her about it), and she is there to frequently remind me of it should I have such thoughts. I could care less about people becoming emo about me dieing, but an obvious thing like this is less easily dismissed.
2) I am a very logical person, and even when it doesn't feel like anything is ever going to change logic can usually at least veto it. I am optimistic about that no matter how immutable life might seem, in a few decades technology will come do posthuman stuff and change everything.
3) I have a natural tendency to be indecisive, and an aversion against burning bridges, and have yet to lose grasp enough to forget that death is something really, REALLY long term and millennia is nothing in that perspective, thus procastination could probably keep up for decades as long as there is no indication i might actually lose the ABILITY to kill myself.

generaly, if I loase 2 out of those 3 shit might get real, but that seems unlikely, atleast for an extended period of time, and a single one could probably stave it of atleast a few weeks. The trick is to make sure happyness or freedom or anything other spesific or subjective has nothing to do with it.
Atleast the bridge burning and long-termness shuld be apliable to more normal peaple, basicaly "if you really insist to  kill yourself, then I guess I cant stop you, but Ido recomendd the method "old age"."

[Psyco Jelly]

This topic leaves me wanting to say something, then I delete it all after thinking about it. It's something that I seem to show interest in, but I guess I don't really have much to say about it.

Depression robs you of your ability to see the possibilities that remain. It blinds you, you stop thinking rationally, and you might do something stupid. Because of the nature of the insanity, it seems like the best idea. That's why I hate it so much. It ruins your mind, arguably the most precious thing you have.

I wish there was some way to combat it. I don't suffer from it myself, but I feel so sad for those who experience it. It's a natural human response to try and empathize, but when others don't want your empathy, that makes you feel horrible. My niece has sought professional help, and after two years she seems to have finally broken free. There's no way to be sure that it won't return. That's why I fucking haste it so much.

Chaoticjosh, it'd be nice if I could listen to her, but the fact is that she doesn't want me to. She just seems to get openly hostile whenever I talk to her about it at all.

[Aqizzar]

In This Thread we battle over how respectively fucked in the head we all are.

Uh, josh?  Was that directed at me in any way?  If not, s'cool, but chill out.

Spoiler: If it was... (click to show/hide)

I was describing the one specific time that my frequent and recurrent bouts of depression got bad enough that I thought about dieing.  I know what the fuck chronic depression is.  I couldn't know much better.  I beat myself up over performance in school and my jealousy of people who do better than me, over my shitty job that constantly reminds me how important it is to do well in school to work somewhere else, over my complete lack of any future goals despite passing over every opportunity given to me, over my simultaneous anxiety of being alone and being well known, and over all my unrequited goals and projects languishing just close enough to pine over.  And then I beat myself up over feeling so goddamn sorry for myself despite having "nothing real" to complain about except the prison of my own head.  Hell, I started drinking when I turned 21, just so I can fall asleep inside of three hours without my brain keeping me awake, reminding me what a loser I am.

So you can keep your defensiveness to yourself, and henceforth I will mine.

ToonyMan, glad to have you around.  Nothing lasts forever man.

[Kagus]

I'm not entirely sure if I'm depressed or not.  The school councilor I talked with said that a person can be depressed even when they feel just fine (made no sense to me, but whatever).  But yeah, during a period, I was severely alone.  I felt unworthy of human contact.  There were a couple night where I heard people having a good ol' time just outside my room, and my reaction was to stick my head under the covers and sob for a while until I got enough of it out to go to sleep.

Yeah, it's lame.  But I'll admit it.  I also admit I used to think about how easy it would be, to just disassemble one of my shaving razors, go into one of the showers, turn on the hot water (to somewhat counteract the chill of bloodloss), and just let everything fade away.  All my uncertainty about how I was going to support myself in life ahead, all the self-hatred I felt for my shortcomings, all the loneliness I had to walk around with.  All the envy for what others took for granted in their lives.

Hell, I even felt annoyed with myself for feeling so shitty!  Looking at it from an objective standpoint, I've got it great!  My family is financially secure to an extent (enough to have several luxuries), I've got every opportunity in the world available to me, I wasn't cursed with physical birth defects, mental retardation, muscular dystrophy or even clinical ugliness.  Compared to a vast amount of people (a few of whom I've met personally), I'm living in frikkin' heaven.   

So why in hell do I feel this way?


I've considered suicide off and on for a rather long time.  And I'm somewhat ashamed to state that the main reason for not going for it is the fantastically egotistical view that I simply mean too much to too many people.  I could never do something like that to the people who, for whatever reason, seem to have grown attached to me.

A very good friend of mine has similar problems.  He seems to feel that he essentially lost his life several years ago (he's never told me about what this event was, but it obviously meant a lot to him), and that suicide for him would just be turning off the soulless machine that's plodding around in his place.  He's waiting for all the people who like him to either die off or forget about him, so he can finally OD on Morphine in peace.

After hearing this, I told him that he was shit out of luck, as I intended to live for a very long time yet, and that I was never going to forget him. 


I figured it was about as sensible a comment as I could give to something like that.

[JoshuaFH]

Sorry if I seemed hostile Aqizzar. I should aim to be more considerate before making passive attacks at people.

[Jackrabbit]

Sorry if I seemed hostile Aqizzar. I should aim to be more considerate before making passive attacks at people.

Making passive attacks in the first place never leads anywhere good.

[Broose]

You're not helping ToonyMan.

Sorry, it's just.

I've never had problems in school or anything, I always do well, even now.  Very rarely would I find myself getting a B on my trimester grades.  If you were to see me in public, you would be like, "Hey, that kid looks like he knows what he's doing."  And if that were just the case it would be great and all, but no.  My family life sucks.  My parents are I don't even know.  My Mother doesn't have a job and it doesn't look like she's going to get one soon.  My step-Father finds odd-jobs when they're avaible, I'm pretty sure he sells drugs so we can keep our house.  Speaking of my house, I live in a $800-1000? (can't rememeber) monthly mortage house that is tiny, I don't have a door to my room.  The most expensive thing in my room is the computer I type on right now.  Even with all of this happening to me I would be ok, but no.  I live in a world that seems to run on "just passing" or "just enough" IF that.  My school and the State spend so much on the humans that shouldn't be allowed to live.  It's insane.  I have such strong hateful feelings for these people that could look in the mirror and know that they are killing off our future.  School was just like a local version.  I'm surrounded by mediocracy and chaos.  Kids that do poorly (80%? there's alot, even the students that do well show traits of lazyiness) are having so much attention on them that other actual "honor" students including me are deprived for doing well, yet I still DO.  I wake up each morning knowing that it's always going to be the same, I'm always going to DO my BEST and others won't.  Would you honestly expect a 16 year old boy to be self-discipline and a high-achiever?  No you don't, oh sure all of the teachers love me, but that makes me hate it even more.  Other students around me can pull off crap C's and feel good about themselves.  I haven't shared my feelings about this to other students, because the outcome is easy to predict.  This started happening during 8th grade when I slowly started to realize what kind of world I live in.  I became desensitized, my feelings apathic.  I STILL do my best in everything that I could do, it never makes me feel happy.  I can play a video-game, it never makes me feel happy.  I can talk with friends (the few I have), it never makes me feel happy.  People around me have seen a change going on in me, no longer am I mister happy oblivious moron, but I am now a bitter, sarcastic, and miserable log.  The only time you will see a smile on my face is when I laugh at the irony of my luck or when I am on Bay12, acting like an insane fool with no worries.

That is all.

I do not think you should be angry at people for not trying/caring. I weasel my way out of all the work I can, and do not take most things seriously. Why not? From what you have been saying, this constant trying your best thing is making you feel like shit. So what are you getting out of trying? You are just going to die anyways, like everyone else. Then all of your hard work will mean nothing. So do whatever.

[Enzo]

Sorry if I seemed hostile Aqizzar. I should aim to be more considerate before making passive attacks at people.

Making passive attacks in the first place never leads anywhere good.

I agree! All attacks should be unabashedly aggressive. No point doin' a job halfway.

In This Thread we battle over how respectively fucked in the head we all are.

I was afraid of that. And yet, looking at my post, I was really only encouraging it. Let's not compare sob stories, eh? No winners in a contest like that.

[ToonyMan]

You're not helping ToonyMan.

Sorry, it's just.

I've never had problems in school or anything, I always do well, even now.  Very rarely would I find myself getting a B on my trimester grades.  If you were to see me in public, you would be like, "Hey, that kid looks like he knows what he's doing."  And if that were just the case it would be great and all, but no.  My family life sucks.  My parents are I don't even know.  My Mother doesn't have a job and it doesn't look like she's going to get one soon.  My step-Father finds odd-jobs when they're avaible, I'm pretty sure he sells drugs so we can keep our house.  Speaking of my house, I live in a $800-1000? (can't rememeber) monthly mortage house that is tiny, I don't have a door to my room.  The most expensive thing in my room is the computer I type on right now.  Even with all of this happening to me I would be ok, but no.  I live in a world that seems to run on "just passing" or "just enough" IF that.  My school and the State spend so much on the humans that shouldn't be allowed to live.  It's insane.  I have such strong hateful feelings for these people that could look in the mirror and know that they are killing off our future.  School was just like a local version.  I'm surrounded by mediocracy and chaos.  Kids that do poorly (80%? there's alot, even the students that do well show traits of lazyiness) are having so much attention on them that other actual "honor" students including me are deprived for doing well, yet I still DO.  I wake up each morning knowing that it's always going to be the same, I'm always going to DO my BEST and others won't.  Would you honestly expect a 16 year old boy to be self-discipline and a high-achiever?  No you don't, oh sure all of the teachers love me, but that makes me hate it even more.  Other students around me can pull off crap C's and feel good about themselves.  I haven't shared my feelings about this to other students, because the outcome is easy to predict.  This started happening during 8th grade when I slowly started to realize what kind of world I live in.  I became desensitized, my feelings apathic.  I STILL do my best in everything that I could do, it never makes me feel happy.  I can play a video-game, it never makes me feel happy.  I can talk with friends (the few I have), it never makes me feel happy.  People around me have seen a change going on in me, no longer am I mister happy oblivious moron, but I am now a bitter, sarcastic, and miserable log.  The only time you will see a smile on my face is when I laugh at the irony of my luck or when I am on Bay12, acting like an insane fool with no worries.

That is all.

I do not think you should be angry at people for not trying/caring. I weasel my way out of all the work I can, and do not take most things seriously. Why not? From what you have been saying, this constant trying your best thing is making you feel like shit. So what are you getting out of trying? You are just going to die anyways, like everyone else. Then all of your hard work will mean nothing. So do whatever.

People like you make me feel like shit.

[Broose]

You're not helping ToonyMan.

Sorry, it's just.

I've never had problems in school or anything, I always do well, even now.  Very rarely would I find myself getting a B on my trimester grades.  If you were to see me in public, you would be like, "Hey, that kid looks like he knows what he's doing."  And if that were just the case it would be great and all, but no.  My family life sucks.  My parents are I don't even know.  My Mother doesn't have a job and it doesn't look like she's going to get one soon.  My step-Father finds odd-jobs when they're avaible, I'm pretty sure he sells drugs so we can keep our house.  Speaking of my house, I live in a $800-1000? (can't rememeber) monthly mortage house that is tiny, I don't have a door to my room.  The most expensive thing in my room is the computer I type on right now.  Even with all of this happening to me I would be ok, but no.  I live in a world that seems to run on "just passing" or "just enough" IF that.  My school and the State spend so much on the humans that shouldn't be allowed to live.  It's insane.  I have such strong hateful feelings for these people that could look in the mirror and know that they are killing off our future.  School was just like a local version.  I'm surrounded by mediocracy and chaos.  Kids that do poorly (80%? there's alot, even the students that do well show traits of lazyiness) are having so much attention on them that other actual "honor" students including me are deprived for doing well, yet I still DO.  I wake up each morning knowing that it's always going to be the same, I'm always going to DO my BEST and others won't.  Would you honestly expect a 16 year old boy to be self-discipline and a high-achiever?  No you don't, oh sure all of the teachers love me, but that makes me hate it even more.  Other students around me can pull off crap C's and feel good about themselves.  I haven't shared my feelings about this to other students, because the outcome is easy to predict.  This started happening during 8th grade when I slowly started to realize what kind of world I live in.  I became desensitized, my feelings apathic.  I STILL do my best in everything that I could do, it never makes me feel happy.  I can play a video-game, it never makes me feel happy.  I can talk with friends (the few I have), it never makes me feel happy.  People around me have seen a change going on in me, no longer am I mister happy oblivious moron, but I am now a bitter, sarcastic, and miserable log.  The only time you will see a smile on my face is when I laugh at the irony of my luck or when I am on Bay12, acting like an insane fool with no worries.

That is all.

I do not think you should be angry at people for not trying/caring. I weasel my way out of all the work I can, and do not take most things seriously. Why not? From what you have been saying, this constant trying your best thing is making you feel like shit. So what are you getting out of trying? You are just going to die anyways, like everyone else. Then all of your hard work will mean nothing. So do whatever.

People like you make me feel like shit.

Why is that?

[ToonyMan]

You're not helping ToonyMan.

Sorry, it's just.

I've never had problems in school or anything, I always do well, even now.  Very rarely would I find myself getting a B on my trimester grades.  If you were to see me in public, you would be like, "Hey, that kid looks like he knows what he's doing."  And if that were just the case it would be great and all, but no.  My family life sucks.  My parents are I don't even know.  My Mother doesn't have a job and it doesn't look like she's going to get one soon.  My step-Father finds odd-jobs when they're avaible, I'm pretty sure he sells drugs so we can keep our house.  Speaking of my house, I live in a $800-1000? (can't rememeber) monthly mortage house that is tiny, I don't have a door to my room.  The most expensive thing in my room is the computer I type on right now.  Even with all of this happening to me I would be ok, but no.  I live in a world that seems to run on "just passing" or "just enough" IF that.  My school and the State spend so much on the humans that shouldn't be allowed to live.  It's insane.  I have such strong hateful feelings for these people that could look in the mirror and know that they are killing off our future.  School was just like a local version.  I'm surrounded by mediocracy and chaos.  Kids that do poorly (80%? there's alot, even the students that do well show traits of lazyiness) are having so much attention on them that other actual "honor" students including me are deprived for doing well, yet I still DO.  I wake up each morning knowing that it's always going to be the same, I'm always going to DO my BEST and others won't.  Would you honestly expect a 16 year old boy to be self-discipline and a high-achiever?  No you don't, oh sure all of the teachers love me, but that makes me hate it even more.  Other students around me can pull off crap C's and feel good about themselves.  I haven't shared my feelings about this to other students, because the outcome is easy to predict.  This started happening during 8th grade when I slowly started to realize what kind of world I live in.  I became desensitized, my feelings apathic.  I STILL do my best in everything that I could do, it never makes me feel happy.  I can play a video-game, it never makes me feel happy.  I can talk with friends (the few I have), it never makes me feel happy.  People around me have seen a change going on in me, no longer am I mister happy oblivious moron, but I am now a bitter, sarcastic, and miserable log.  The only time you will see a smile on my face is when I laugh at the irony of my luck or when I am on Bay12, acting like an insane fool with no worries.

That is all.

I do not think you should be angry at people for not trying/caring. I weasel my way out of all the work I can, and do not take most things seriously. Why not? From what you have been saying, this constant trying your best thing is making you feel like shit. So what are you getting out of trying? You are just going to die anyways, like everyone else. Then all of your hard work will mean nothing. So do whatever.

People like you make me feel like shit.

Why is that?

...

Your philosophy is that since you're going to die, why help society?

[Broose]

You're not helping ToonyMan.

Sorry, it's just.

I've never had problems in school or anything, I always do well, even now.  Very rarely would I find myself getting a B on my trimester grades.  If you were to see me in public, you would be like, "Hey, that kid looks like he knows what he's doing."  And if that were just the case it would be great and all, but no.  My family life sucks.  My parents are I don't even know.  My Mother doesn't have a job and it doesn't look like she's going to get one soon.  My step-Father finds odd-jobs when they're avaible, I'm pretty sure he sells drugs so we can keep our house.  Speaking of my house, I live in a $800-1000? (can't rememeber) monthly mortage house that is tiny, I don't have a door to my room.  The most expensive thing in my room is the computer I type on right now.  Even with all of this happening to me I would be ok, but no.  I live in a world that seems to run on "just passing" or "just enough" IF that.  My school and the State spend so much on the humans that shouldn't be allowed to live.  It's insane.  I have such strong hateful feelings for these people that could look in the mirror and know that they are killing off our future.  School was just like a local version.  I'm surrounded by mediocracy and chaos.  Kids that do poorly (80%? there's alot, even the students that do well show traits of lazyiness) are having so much attention on them that other actual "honor" students including me are deprived for doing well, yet I still DO.  I wake up each morning knowing that it's always going to be the same, I'm always going to DO my BEST and others won't.  Would you honestly expect a 16 year old boy to be self-discipline and a high-achiever?  No you don't, oh sure all of the teachers love me, but that makes me hate it even more.  Other students around me can pull off crap C's and feel good about themselves.  I haven't shared my feelings about this to other students, because the outcome is easy to predict.  This started happening during 8th grade when I slowly started to realize what kind of world I live in.  I became desensitized, my feelings apathic.  I STILL do my best in everything that I could do, it never makes me feel happy.  I can play a video-game, it never makes me feel happy.  I can talk with friends (the few I have), it never makes me feel happy.  People around me have seen a change going on in me, no longer am I mister happy oblivious moron, but I am now a bitter, sarcastic, and miserable log.  The only time you will see a smile on my face is when I laugh at the irony of my luck or when I am on Bay12, acting like an insane fool with no worries.

That is all.

I do not think you should be angry at people for not trying/caring. I weasel my way out of all the work I can, and do not take most things seriously. Why not? From what you have been saying, this constant trying your best thing is making you feel like shit. So what are you getting out of trying? You are just going to die anyways, like everyone else. Then all of your hard work will mean nothing. So do whatever.

People like you make me feel like shit.

Why is that?

...

Your philosophy is that since you're going to die, why help society?

You obviously disagree, but do you have an answer? People like me may be making the world worse for everyone, but if I'm happy, I don't really care.

[ToonyMan]

You're not helping ToonyMan.

Sorry, it's just.

I've never had problems in school or anything, I always do well, even now.  Very rarely would I find myself getting a B on my trimester grades.  If you were to see me in public, you would be like, "Hey, that kid looks like he knows what he's doing."  And if that were just the case it would be great and all, but no.  My family life sucks.  My parents are I don't even know.  My Mother doesn't have a job and it doesn't look like she's going to get one soon.  My step-Father finds odd-jobs when they're avaible, I'm pretty sure he sells drugs so we can keep our house.  Speaking of my house, I live in a $800-1000? (can't rememeber) monthly mortage house that is tiny, I don't have a door to my room.  The most expensive thing in my room is the computer I type on right now.  Even with all of this happening to me I would be ok, but no.  I live in a world that seems to run on "just passing" or "just enough" IF that.  My school and the State spend so much on the humans that shouldn't be allowed to live.  It's insane.  I have such strong hateful feelings for these people that could look in the mirror and know that they are killing off our future.  School was just like a local version.  I'm surrounded by mediocracy and chaos.  Kids that do poorly (80%? there's alot, even the students that do well show traits of lazyiness) are having so much attention on them that other actual "honor" students including me are deprived for doing well, yet I still DO.  I wake up each morning knowing that it's always going to be the same, I'm always going to DO my BEST and others won't.  Would you honestly expect a 16 year old boy to be self-discipline and a high-achiever?  No you don't, oh sure all of the teachers love me, but that makes me hate it even more.  Other students around me can pull off crap C's and feel good about themselves.  I haven't shared my feelings about this to other students, because the outcome is easy to predict.  This started happening during 8th grade when I slowly started to realize what kind of world I live in.  I became desensitized, my feelings apathic.  I STILL do my best in everything that I could do, it never makes me feel happy.  I can play a video-game, it never makes me feel happy.  I can talk with friends (the few I have), it never makes me feel happy.  People around me have seen a change going on in me, no longer am I mister happy oblivious moron, but I am now a bitter, sarcastic, and miserable log.  The only time you will see a smile on my face is when I laugh at the irony of my luck or when I am on Bay12, acting like an insane fool with no worries.

That is all.

I do not think you should be angry at people for not trying/caring. I weasel my way out of all the work I can, and do not take most things seriously. Why not? From what you have been saying, this constant trying your best thing is making you feel like shit. So what are you getting out of trying? You are just going to die anyways, like everyone else. Then all of your hard work will mean nothing. So do whatever.

People like you make me feel like shit.

Why is that?

...

Your philosophy is that since you're going to die, why help society?

You obviously disagree, but do you have an answer? People like me may be making the world worse for everyone, but if I'm happy, I don't really care.

>:-(

I'm done speaking with you.