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[nunix]

With the army arc being worked on, I think this is pretty vital.

It's crazy to have rookie dwarves fight with battle-level weapons. So your best bet is to either get lucky and get wooden weapons from the elves, or make stuff with something like silver. And then go around forbidding stockpiles, turning dwarves on and off military so that the right squads pick up the right equipment.

A simlpe on/off switch for non-lethal sparring in the squad management screen would, I think, take care of this. When on, the soldiers carry training weapons instead of the best weapons they can find. Which brings us to..

..a simple weapon made of one wood + one cloth, made in craftsdwarf workshop, does 10% damage. Training axe, training spear, et cetera.

It's possible you could put a cap on experience gained from training weapons; after a certain point, you'd have to use real stuff. I don't have a care on that either way.

[Torak]

How would you make a non-lethal spear from one log and some cloth?

[Kagus]

I'm not sure I get the wood+cloth thing, but I think that this could be accomplished by just defining what weapons they're carrying while off duty.

They only spar while off duty, so they should look for the lowest-damage instance of their chosen weapon type, and pick that up.  While active, they should look for the ones with the highest damage.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by Torak:
<STRONG>How would you make a non-lethal spear from one log and some cloth?</STRONG>

Wrap the cloth around the end of the stick.  Duh.

[John Johnston]

For a long-haul training regime, I go for:

Give dwarfs the best armour you have.
Train dwarf to very high skill in wrestling and armour.
Give dwarfs the best shields you have.
Train dwarf to decent skill with shield.
Give dwarfs the best weapons you have.
Train dwarf with weapon.

To work well without causing injuries, but it does take a long time.  Worth it though!  It would be nice to have the opportunity to manufacture/use rebated weapons though, definitely, or perhaps to have "target mannequins", like Archery Targets but for practice with dangerous melee weapons.

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>I'm not sure I get the wood+cloth thing, but I think that this could be accomplished by just defining what weapons they're carrying while off duty.

They only spar while off duty, so they should look for the lowest-damage instance of their chosen weapon type, and pick that up.  While active, they should look for the ones with the highest damage.</STRONG>

Or have sparring only happening in the new Arena building, with a "training" or "allow lethal combat" toggle.

[gurra_geban]

seriously, training spears and swords has been around since all time and there is a trick to them to make them NOT damage the brain of your sparring partner.

brace yourselves, the weapons are completely BLUNT!

i think they should do rediculouly low damage as well, like 40 or something divided by 2 since its wood.

[Zereth]

One way to deal with this might be a Salle/Dojo/Training Hall/Whatever building built off of weapon racks, which hold a new type of item, "training weapons", which would have low damage and negative crit boost, say. And when dwarves go to spar, they'll stick their real weapons in the racks and pick up training versions of the weapon type they're set to use.

Perhaps with a squad toggle to, if there aren't training weapons available, either abort sparring or just use their normal weapons.

I'd say to include armor stands too, but there doesn't seem to be a good reason to have separate training and duty armor. Perhaps weighted practice shields, but that'd involve substantial changes to the combat mechanics.

[Hague]

I'd suggest making your own training variations on every weapon. The problem with that is that weapons all inherently have the same value. So you will see other dwarves (or other races that you give them to) use the training weapons in real combat. Now, if there were some method of disabling them from standard loadouts and make building them a reaction while still allowing them to be used without them being listed in the Dwarven entity.

[Hyperturtle]

I always wondered if in training, if my recruits are getting bad head and spine injuries, despite higher than normal quality steel armor, simply because they chose to spar with a +5 legendary champion.

[BurnedToast]

Right now, legendary champions (legendary in all skills) are essentially unstoppable killing machines able to single-handedly destroy whole sieges and slay megabeasts without even breaking a sweat. Even the dreaded overpowered archers don't stand a chance vs legendary shield use and legendary wrestling.

Considering that if you get a dwarf a few levels of toughness (pump operator, or just let them chat for a while now that they get social skills) they almost never get permanently wounded while sparring I don't think it really needs to be changed - if you want risk free champions just use dwarf companion to bump them up.

If champions are eventually toned down, then I think we can look at making sparring less deadly but right now I think if anything they should make sparring MORE deadly or somehow more risky.

[Hyperturtle]

I'm not so sure of that.  I have champions that have had neck and spine injuries, and one of them had bed rest until I figured out how to get the bolt out of its head.  

None of them practice any more, but they still do a decent job attacking.  They did easily take down the bronze collosus this time around, but a mob of goblins firing crossbows can get them to drop.  I lost a champion fortress guard with a few legendaries after she got hit in the leg by a bolt (and everyone forgot to feed her afterwards).

And when you've had the same dwarves as champions for a number of fortress years, ooh they get upset when their friends die!  I've even had a few sets of champions have kids that grow up to be in the military as well (it's amazing they survived that long, but like I said.. I have one guy missing an eye and has brain injuries but still does an alright job).

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Dame de la Licorne]

And assign specific weapons/armor to specific dwarves.

[Footkerchief]

Seriously, training weapons are a complete no-brainer.  Getting a soldier to legendary in anything other than wrestling/marksdwarf is just not worth it right now, which is a real shame.