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Author Topic: What are the best setups for various industries?  (Read 1414 times)

Truean

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What are the best setups for various industries?
« on: September 02, 2009, 01:50:09 pm »

This can include an industry with multiple or alternate inputs/outputs. Of course metalworking is also concerned with fuels (or magma which is its own problem).

How would you design say... a cloth industry?

You've got three possible inputs:
Rope Reed Thread
Pigtail thread
Cave spider silk (giant? Phantom?)

After that you've got the weaver and various cloth

Then you have the numerous finished products from cloth

How do you design a workspace around that?

Metalworking is, without a doubt, the most complex industry, because it has so many different types of inputs, fuel concerns, and outputs divided by kind and often function (armor, weapons, chains, etc)

How would you design the best setup for a given industry.
Extra credit for pictures.

For reference:

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Industry
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 02:28:41 pm by Truean »
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Truean

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 03:04:53 pm »

For example, I find it helpful to have numerous lockable storage areas of various sizes near certain workshops to force craftsdwarves to use high quality goods. I don't want a well crafted table to be decorated with light yellow diamonds. I'd much rather use that platinum statue (for nobles).

This is of course an Example used in a jeweler's workshop

(Space reserved for picture)
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Jim Groovester

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Jim Groovester's Gameplay Essays: The Cloth Industry
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 04:11:51 pm »

I stopped caring about how efficient my industries were when the flood of items produced by them far outpaced the abilities of my haulers to haul them.

However, I'll play along.

For the cloth industry:

It's entirely possible to have both indoor and outdoor farms very near each other with a little trickery. I have four plots, two four food, two for cloth and other products. The two that do cloth products consist of an underground farm for pig tails and dimple dye, planting both for two seasons, and the above ground plot has rope reeds set to grow for two seasons, and then blade weeds and hide roots for the other two. Redroot dye isn't as valuable as dimple dye or emerald dye, so you don't have to grow hide roots if you want to maximize the value of your plant cloth industry.

Immediately in an adjacent room are farmer's workshops and millstones, usually two of each. Surrounding them is a stockpile that is set to accept only pig tails, rope reeds, blade weeds, hide roots, dimple cups, and sliver barbs (if available), and your growers will do the hauling to this stockpile, if those plants are disable in other food stockpiles. The farmer's workshops have process plants set to repeat, and the millstones have mill plants set to repeat. This will require tons and tons and tons of bags, so hopefully, your cloth industry is capable of handling demand. (It should.)

In another room right adjacent to the farmer's workshops are looms and dyer's workshops. The looms work automatically, so they don't require any micromanagement, although in the workshop orders you can set the looms to only use dyed thread. This is pretty much unnecessary, since both cloth and thread can be dyed. The dyer's workshop have dye thread and dye cloth both set to repeat. Cloth stockpiles can be designated, to reduce clutter, but the raw materials are close enough to workshops that they probably are not needed.

Then, in another room right adjacent to that are two clothier's workshops and two craftdwarf's workshops. Cloth can be turned into clothes or crafts. Socks are the most valuable option available, so if wealth is your only concern, make socks, on repeat. Otherwise, you can have one clothier's workshop make one portion of the clothes available to you and then the other make the rest, both set to repeat. If you get tired of clothes, you can make crafts.

This doesn't consider silk, since spider webs usually are not conveniently located near your centers of industry. This is how I would deal with it, however.

Where the spider webs are, either cave, phantom, giant, set several looms. Turn off auto loom in workshop orders and dwarves autocollect webs. Then set the four or six or eight workshops to collect webs on repeat, and set the workshop profile to only allow unskilled laborers to collect the webs. Enable weaving on several hauler dwarves, and wait for the inevitable flood of silk.

So that's how I would try to streamline the clothing industry as much as possible, from plants to thread to cloth to clothes.

I actually do (or did) have a fortress that had this setup for the clothing industry, but I wouldn't be able to find it now. So no pictures, sorry.

I can produce similar essays on the glass industry, the gem industry (if you have the glass industry) and possibly, the metalworking industry. I could probably come up with reasonable things for the food industry, the livestock industry, the bone decoration and glass encrusting industries, as needed, too.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 05:37:16 pm by Jim Groovester »
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Truean

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 05:13:30 pm »

sounds awesome, looking forward to them if you'll share.
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Jim Groovester

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Jim Groovester's Gameplay Essays: The Glass Industry
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2009, 05:33:42 pm »

I suppose I could deliver a few more essays regarding various other industries. I might as well start with the glass industry, since that one is pretty easy.

For the glass industry: In order to have a glass industry, you will need sand in some form on your map. Not sandy loam, or loamy sand, or anything like that. Sand. Black sand, red sand, green sand, blue sand. Yellow Sand, white sand, or just sand. And shuddup, I know there's no blue sand in the game.

More than likely, you will also need magma. You can make glass without magma, but you'll need a piece of fuel. Since you will likely want to train glassmakers, this will require six hundred pieces of fuel to train a glassmaker from peasant to legendary, and if you want more, you'll need six hundred pieces of fuel for each additional glassmaker. As you can see, the amount of fuel required for the glass industry, which you may need to split with other more vital industries, like steel making and armoring and weaponsmithing, make glassmaking without magma infeasible.

So, you'll need several magma-powered glass furnaces. Four is a good number, or more, if you have a bunch of legendary glass makers, or want to train them. Surrounding these workshops or in an adjacent room should be a giant furniture stockpile that is set to collect only sand bags. You'll need all the quality and material modifiers in order for the stockpile to work, but the reason you'll need a big stockpile is because of this:

You'll need bags. Lots and lots of bags. More bags than you know what to do with, save for the glass industry. So if you have a powerful cloth industry, which you may or may not have set up according to what I've stated about the cloth industry, you can churn out several hundred bags or so easily.

Hopefully, several hundred should be all you need.

The 'brilliant' secret to having an efficient glass industry is to set up several dummy glass furnaces elsewhere, and a collect sand job set on repeat. If you use work orders, there should be ten jobs collect sand jobs set on repeat, so that the manager doesn't allocate any jobs to the dummy glass furnaces instead of your magma glass furnaces.

You can increase or decrease the flow of sand bags to your magma glass furnaces by suspending or unsuspending all of the jobs at the dummy glass furnaces. If your haulers cancel collecting sand because of a lack of bags, you increase the number of suspensions, thereby decreasing the flow of sand bags. If your glassmakers cancel making glass because of no sand bearing items, you decrease the number of suspensions to increase the flow of sand bags.

That's for creating green glass, the most basic kind. To make clear glass in large volumes, which is the only other kind of glass that can be built in large volumes (as rock crystals only appear in small quantities and can only be used rough, which means you must dig them out on-site), you'll need pearlash, and lots of it, to keep pace with your glass makers. Unfortunately, it's likely that you'll never have enough.

You'll need a heavily forested map, or extremely large and efficient tower cap farms, as you won't be able to make large amounts of clear glass with the amount of wood imported by caravans. You'll also need an efficient wood cutting industry, which is another essay on its own. You will also need to split your glass industry's demand for wood with all your other industries. This is one of the reasons why you probably won't be able to produce clear glass in large quantities.

Nearby, but not necessarily directly adjacent to, your magma glass furnaces, you should put a large wood stockpile. Adjacent to this stockpile, you should have several wood furnaces. Two, maybe four, depending on how fast you want to burn through all your wood. You should set these to produce ash on repeat. You may need to split the demands of your glass industry with the demands of your metalworking industry, as you can burn wood to produce charcoal, one type of fuel, which is necessary for any steel making. This is one of the reasons why you probably won't be able to produce clear glass in large quantities.

Next to your wood furnaces you should have several asheries, most likely matching the number of wood furnaces. If you're looking to train legendary potash makers and lye makers (who should probably have both labors enabled anyway), you should set your asheries to make lye from ash on repeat, and then potash from lye on repeat. This adds an extra step in making pearlash, which will slow down the rate at which you make pearlash, and if you want to make soap, you'll have to split your lye needs with your potash needs. This is another reason why you probably won't be able to produce clear glass in large quantities.

You'll need several magma kilns, probably the same number as your asheries and wood furnaces, and these should be built close to your magma glass furnaces. Magma kilns have one job, to turn potash into pearlash, so you should have that set on repeat. Surrounding the magma kilns, but not entirely necessary if they are close to your asheries, should be a bar/block stockpile set to accept potash. Magma kilns are operated by furnace operators, so you may have to slow down your magma smelters or train more furnace operators to meet the demands of your glass industry. Another reason why you probably won't be able to produce clear glass in large quantities.

Once you have all that set up, you can make clear glass. You can make raw clear glass as another decoration, or you can make other things, but whatever you make with clear glass, I recommend you decide well in advance, as you will have less clear glass than you will green glass, so you should prioritize what you want to make, and focus on that instead of idling about making raw clear glass.

Pah, I said this would be easy. If there's more demand for my essays, I can produce more.
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Truean

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 07:17:15 pm »

Of  course there is demand, there are over 150 views with less than 10 posts in this thread. Please continue
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darkflagrance

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2009, 03:54:22 am »

These essays need to be added to the wiki. Not only do they give a handy guide for the processes needed for industry, they also give an idea of the scope.
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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 04:24:17 am »

They could be called "Industry Lecture Series 1: The Jim Groovester Sessions". It's like a lecture series. but awesome.
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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2009, 09:56:48 am »

Tiny little tip I found is that the location of the input stockpile is FAR more important than for the output stockpile, you want the skilled workers to do the least amount of walking, haulers be damned!

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Shadowex3

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2009, 03:49:21 pm »

Tiny little tip I found is that the location of the input stockpile is FAR more important than for the output stockpile, you want the skilled workers to do the least amount of walking, haulers be damned!

Up/down starways are your FRIEND. I've managed to massively optimise most of my operations by building my workships around the periphery of a room all of which are near up/down stairways and directly below their particular stockpile and directly above their particular finished goods stockpile. Once you get enough haulers the fastest setup I've found so far is to leave moving finished stuff around to the haulers and let your working dorf only move around things he needs to work with. Haulers will put stuff in the stockpiles, he gets stuff to work with as he needs it, travel time is largely minimized.

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2009, 08:47:29 am »

I set up my stockpiles two or three floors over my workspaces. When I have a lot of dwarves, I put stockpiles full of whatever that workshop will use right next to them and have haulers constantly filling the piles as fast as my crafters drain them.
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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2009, 04:35:21 pm »

Tiny little tip I found is that the location of the input stockpile is FAR more important than for the output stockpile, you want the skilled workers to do the least amount of walking, haulers be damned!

Up/down starways are your FRIEND. I've managed to massively optimise most of my operations by building my workships around the periphery of a room all of which are near up/down stairways and directly below their particular stockpile and directly above their particular finished goods stockpile. Once you get enough haulers the fastest setup I've found so far is to leave moving finished stuff around to the haulers and let your working dorf only move around things he needs to work with. Haulers will put stuff in the stockpiles, he gets stuff to work with as he needs it, travel time is largely minimized.

Interesting, I have the same thing, a central shaft which is all stairs and traffic-management stuff which is surrounded by workshops, but unlike you I save almost all space that is near the shaft for either workshops or their input materials, I normally have a ton of surplus peons imigrants who do all the actual work.

List of priorities:

1.  Your legendary craftsdwarf spends as little time doing non-productive things (walking, sleeping, eating, drinking)

2.  Haulers walk as small a distance as possible (Impossible with stone, gems, and wood as they are created on location, hauler walk distance can't be controlled) Remember haulers don't gain XP
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Jim Groovester

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2009, 05:55:18 pm »

I haven't forgotten about this, just to let everybody know, but writing a giant essay about various industries and other topics is a bit time consuming. So I'll update when I have the time, and the desire.

My days as a Dwarven Industrial Engineer are, for the most part, over, but I still have a lot to talk about regarding them.
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Truean

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Re: What are the best setups for various industries?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2009, 11:55:12 am »

Sounds cool.

We appreciate you updating whenever you're willing and able.

Thank you for your contribution; it has been rather helpful.

Truean
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Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.