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[Draco18s]

I'm not 100% sure it's all tractor beams, though. I think I remember a black widow's tractor'd stuff not going back with it, hrm.

Black Widow might have an exception on it, or they might've all died from damage within quick succession after warping.
Additionally there's some controls that say that if a ship is tractor-ed and it's removed from friendly space, self destruct.

The pop-through, tractor, pop-back mechanic is getting a nerf soon/now with a change to how the AI stacks attack fleets "anywhere" in its system rather than "on the wormhole."
(Read the change log today, woo)

[Tarran]

Man, the game's universe generation can be harsh sometimes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, a homeworld is right in the way of my expansion. And all the A shields are hidden behind it. Adding to that, butt tons of MK4 systems. I shouldn't have picked Fortress Baron for light red...

And of course, to top it all off, there's a rebellion way the hell back there.

For my skill level, I don't think I could pull a victory out of this with the AIP rising ever so steadily. Unless someone has a way to sneak past several systems full of tachyons?

Not common, but I'd say one game in two will see *a* Mark 4 adjacent to your homeworld.  Beat it up early before it gets a chance to reinforce.

In a multiplayer game, I once had three generated adjacent to my homeworld. Yes, really, three.

[Frumple]

If you've got spirecraft on... yeah. Yeah, skipping past systems gets pretty easy. Especially if you've got mk 4 scout starships, but without that you can get a slightly lower range easy-hop via spire scouts.

Anyway, spire jumpships. Just... you need something in the system you want to drop stuff in if you want to keep the jumpship. Otherwise... they can basically go anywhere in a few seconds and nothing can really stop 'em. Even without vision you can move them all to the system you want, then blow one of them up and unload the rest. It's kinda' insane. Sure, it's only 5/mk in terms of transportation, but that's... kinda' okay. Stick mostly starships in it or whatev'.

[Aklyon]

You could always, you know, kill the tachyons. Then use cloakers and transports/jumpships and sneak your way over to the other side.

[Tarran]

If you've got spirecraft on... yeah. Yeah, skipping past systems gets pretty easy.

Besides the fact that there's a lot of systems higher than MK2, which is the highest level of jumpships I can make. And jumpships attrition in systems of higher mark then them. How long do jumpships stay in a system while moving?

Even then, there are several systems with grav drills...

You could always, you know, kill the tachyons. Then use cloakers and transports/jumpships and sneak your way over to the other side.

Except that attrition affects transports out of supply. And killing the tachyons that far would be... difficult, to say the least. Plus I may irritate the AI with the deepstrikes.

[Aklyon]

Its not true attrition, they lose health per jump. You can get at least a couple jumps out no problem (assuming you've cleared out the tachyons to do so and have a cloaking source, otherwise expect to get shot open), and if you're willing to just dump everything out onto a wormhole when the transport dies you can get slightly further than that.

Also, neutral planets reset deepstrike I believe.

[alexwazer]

Yeah, deepstrike is based on distance of the nearest planet not controlled by AI. Neutral planet or player controlled makes no difference here.

Although, in this case, it would still be a world of pain because of homeworld being alerted and already high AIP. This seems like the typical shot-yourself-in-the-foot situation commonly encountered in AI War. Keama and Piratho should probably not have been captured so early.

Not much I can suggest without knowing more about the systems and fleets around. Phimicfen or Neiausav seem like the best targets past the chokepoint and they are within range for using transport, although the amount of defence and other stuff might still be an issue.

[Tarran]

Its not true attrition, they lose health per jump. You can get at least a couple jumps out no problem (assuming you've cleared out the tachyons to do so and have a cloaking source, otherwise expect to get shot open), and if you're willing to just dump everything out onto a wormhole when the transport dies you can get slightly further than that.

Also, neutral planets reset deepstrike I believe.

Yes, I know it's not true attrition. But it is 35% per jump. Unless the transports can carry on with 1 HP or something like that (can they?), they are going to disintegrate after 3 jumps.

Also, I guess I should also clarify a little more what my goal is: Get to that rebelling system. 100 AIP would be very bad for me. But I don't think that's going to happen.

Although, in this case, it would still be a world of pain because of homeworld being alerted and already high AIP. This seems like the typical shot-yourself-in-the-foot situation commonly encountered in AI War. Keama and Piratho should probably not have been captured so early.

I guess so, but they looked like (and could be) the best chokepoint planets I could get. The alternative chokepoint planets aren't that attractive. Plus, I wanted to try out beachheading planets, heh.

Really, the REAL mistake I made with AIP is letting my engineers rebuild the Botnet Golem and then letting a sneaky raid by the AI take it out while the rest of my fleet was elsewhere and it was disabled due to low energy. That was a really bad mistake on my part.

Not much I can suggest without knowing more about the systems and fleets around. Phimicfen or Neiausav seem like the best targets past the chokepoint and they are within range for using transport, although the amount of defence and other stuff might still be an issue.

The most they have is a datacenter.

The A shield generators are on Taso, Afrios, Dejuqu, Lejime and Afrlin.

Light red systems are the Fortress Baron AI. So all of those systems under its control are more-often-than-not heavily fortified.

Dark red is Grav Driller. Every third system or so of it has a grav drill. Savgeo has a grav.

Most of the MK4 systems near Grav Drill's home have nothing of use to me.

The Dyson is in Zarvilvil, which is as far from my systems as the rebellion.

But don't worry too much, in all honesty I'm not too attached to this game, especially because of the homeworld placement.

[Frumple]

If you've got spirecraft on... yeah. Yeah, skipping past systems gets pretty easy.

Besides the fact that there's a lot of systems higher than MK2, which is the highest level of jumpships I can make. And jumpships attrition in systems of higher mark then them. How long do jumpships stay in a system while moving?

Even then, there are several systems with grav drills...

Ah... really not paying attention, folks. Spirecraft jumpships do not attrition per jump, at all -- not in supply, not out of supply. They lose health per second while in a system higher than their mark, but... they're in the system something like a second, maybe two. With the twenty or so seconds they have, they can more often than not get from one end of a map to the other -- I've watched a fleet of mk 1s jump, iirc, five or six systems in one go (raid stuff), including right through an AI homeworld. And yes, they ignore tachyon and can't be slowed down. Spirecraft jumpships are rather ridiculously awesome.

Does look like they can't get past black hole machines and stuff that stops teleportation stops them from just bouncing through (though they're still fairly quick, and nothing can really stop them short of a BHM, so they might be able to make it past anyway)... but if you've got any clear route at all the little buggers can get through it, or can at least get a force into the intervening system so you can blow up the obstruction or capture the system.

[Draco18s]

Its not true attrition, they lose health per jump. You can get at least a couple jumps out no problem (assuming you've cleared out the tachyons to do so and have a cloaking source, otherwise expect to get shot open), and if you're willing to just dump everything out onto a wormhole when the transport dies you can get slightly further than that.

Also, neutral planets reset deepstrike I believe.

Yes, I know it's not true attrition. But it is 35% per jump. Unless the transports can carry on with 1 HP or something like that (can they?), they are going to disintegrate after 3 jumps.

They disintegrate and dump their contents on the other side of the wormhole.

Also, you can thank me for that attrition. :3

[Frumple]

Thank you for making spirecraft jumpships even more awesome in comparison

[Draco18s]

Thank you for making spirecraft jumpships even more awesome in comparison

Oh I had nothing to do with that. XD
What happened was that I posted an after-action report where me and my friend build a dozen transports, loaded them up, and them (mostly empty) to the farthest destination they could reach without dying (seven jumps), murdered the system, set up a base to let them heal, then jumped another seven systems out for a capturable or two.  Then did it again for homeworld assaults.

Our systems were safe, due to a single chokepoint, which at the time was impenetrable.  ALL of the fortresses we had between us, EVERY turret, yes, even a MkV Heavy Beam Cannon.  So we were free to set up weakly defended temporary homes while we jump-hopped through the galaxy with a dozen empty transports.

One of the patches within a week or two included the transport attrition.  So I consider myself responsible for it.

[alexwazer]

Ah, never used spirecraft jumpships, guess that's something else to look into eventually. There's still so much I haven't seriously experienced in this game.

Anyway, that game is far from unwinnable. You have an almost direct road to the second AI homeworld going through Raecen, Savgeo, Phimicfen, Murdoch, Anmondse, Thonudis, Tchhaslau. 4 of the A shield are within a few jumps of that road, which is all you need. Screw Dejuqu. Might not be easy, but doable.

[Tarran]

Ah... really not paying attention, folks. Spirecraft jumpships do not attrition per jump, at all -- not in supply, not out of supply.

Actually, I was paying full attention, and fully understood what you were saying. I know full well they don't attrition per jump. I can read the description of the ship you know.

They lose health per second while in a system higher than their mark, but... they're in the system something like a second, maybe two. With the twenty or so seconds they have, they can more often than not get from one end of a map to the other -- I've watched a fleet of mk 1s jump, iirc, five or six systems in one go (raid stuff), including right through an AI homeworld. And yes, they ignore tachyon and can't be slowed down. Spirecraft jumpships are rather ridiculously awesome.

Ah, will have to try that next time I've go the game open.

Anyway, that game is far from unwinnable.

I never said it was unwinnable. I just said it might be too much for myself to pull off. At least enjoyably.

Anyway, that game is far from unwinnable. You have an almost direct road to the second AI homeworld going through Raecen, Savgeo, Phimicfen, Murdoch, Anmondse, Thonudis, Tchhaslau. 4 of the A shield are within a few jumps of that road, which is all you need. Screw Dejuqu. Might not be easy, but doable.

Well, I certainly won't enjoy that type of game, but that might be something I can attempt, assuming I can get a little more firepower than what I have now along the way.

[Frumple]

Ah... really not paying attention, folks. Spirecraft jumpships do not attrition per jump, at all -- not in supply, not out of supply.

Actually, I was paying full attention, and fully understood what you were saying. I know full well they don't attrition per jump. I can read the description of the ship you know.

Lies! Were that a possibility, inquiry would have been unnecessary! Spirecraft jumpships' incredible virtues are self-evident upon observing their description!

Though I jest, of course. Misreading the conversation a bit, I guess.

But yeah, spirecraft stuff. It's... sorta' awesome. Or, at least, most of it is. Jumpships are incredible, scoutships are also incredible (because who doesn't want MK IV scout starships in every system within at minimum two jumps?), attritioners are incredible (everything becomes AoE bombs, wheeeee) penetrators are conditionally incredible (two asteroids worth can drop almost any core guard post, if they all manage to get their shot off >_>), shield bearers are kinda' awesome. Rams are supposedly kinda' great, but I'm not very fond of 'em (rather have a penetrator, really). Biggest issue with the remainder is they're kinda' samey, all being mostly fleetship murderers (ion for obvious reasons, siege towers due to being basically immune to most fleetships <= their mark, martyrs for similarly obvious reasons), but if you're full up on all three (or at least ion and siege) you're a long way towards completely neutering the AI's fleetship presence.

But those first two... I'd honestly say they're kinda' game changing. Basically nothing is as capable at information gathering as a spire scout fleet, and jumpships are probably the best transport in the game, with all the shenanigans that entails. It's good stuff.