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[Nexan]

Well, sorta. I've got this idea for a fortress stuck in my head. It'll be the first I've actually planned out in any detail beforehand, and I'm having a little trouble figuring out what to do about the water element. Here's the basic idea:



So to explain what's going on here, the fortress will be a circular tower carved out of a cliff face. The far right figure is a side view (not to scale.) I haven't decided on a final height, since it'll probably be determined by the landscape anyway, but I'd like the cliff face to be at least 10 z-levels. On the top of the cliff, the ground level entrance will be surrounded by a shallow circular moat, which will flow off the cliff; the moat will also have two shafts that will drop down two z-levels and then flow out into the main cleft in two waterfalls. Finally, at the bottom of the tower will be a circular pool which flows out away from the cliff.

I think so far there are no major problems with this. What I can't figure out is what to do about water sources and sinks. I think the ideal situation here would be to just find a map with an already-existing waterfall 10 z-levels or more tall and build around that, but I really am having trouble finding waterfalls at all. So another possibility is to find a map with a low-lying river and really tall cliffs, then just pump the water up to the top, but that seems like a lot more work than should be necessary.

So I put it to you project experts: How do I go about finding a waterfall? Is there any chance of me finding the sort of site I'm looking for? Is there some obvious solution I'm overlooking?

[Neyvn]

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=37078.0

Hope no one ninjas me...
Here's a 10Z Waterfall...

[Dorf3000]

So I put it to you project experts: How do I go about finding a waterfall? Is there any chance of me finding the sort of site I'm looking for? Is there some obvious solution I'm overlooking?

Not an expert, but I think the basic idea is to find a stream/minor river joining a brook or other river in the embark screen/map, then tab through to the height map to see if there's a level change between them.  I don't think its very common to get multiple z-level falls in a single river.  Probably it also helps to gen a world with Periodically erode cliffs off.
I'm not sure how aquifers form in DF but it seems unlikely they would be generated high up with an adjacent low level area.

[Random832]

In some cases it is possible to pump water out of the map via a fortification carved into the edge of the map. (I've had it work, but I've also had water seep in through the fortification - I think it depends on whether the next tile over is a river tile. Bottom line make sure it's dry before you connect it to anything else).

[Wolfius]

Aye, fortification draining off-map underground should work, no pumping needed, then you just need some kind of water source.

Just make sure the drainage is sufficent, and, naturally, place it a Z-level above the bottom on the pond so it can't drain dry. Fortification-drains on two or more levels might be a good idea if you're unsure and don't want to widen the drainage canal.

Also, make sure you can turn the water off.

And a closed drainage system for the bottom layer probably couldn't hurt.

And for the love of +Pig Tail Socks+, have some plan for dealing with the stone - you will generate an obscene about of the stuff, enough that it will easily impact your FPS on most computers. As you're using water and not magma, an atom smasher is probably the best idea. Either that, or(if you're patient) industrial block production or the ilk.

[Scarpa]

I've found lots of embark spots that have 10+ z-level elevation changes and with a brook on the top z-level plateau.

If you find something like that you can source the water from the brook on top of the plateau and then drain it off map underground using fortifications.

I even have a save game with an embark just like this if you want it.

[Nexan]

Cool, I didn't know you could drain off the map with fortifications, that seems like the best solution for me. I already had a map saved with a large cliff and a minor river on top that I'd thought was perfect except that I didn't know how to drain the water, so I can just use that. Thanks for the help!

And yeah, emergency drainage and rock disposal are both issues I hadn't thought about (this will only be like my eighth fortress.) I'll definitely build an atom smasher and lots of safeguards against flooding!

[Inquisitor Saturn]

If it were me I probably would have looked for an aquifer. That way your fort could have the appearance of creating water from nowhere.

[Random832]

That way your fort could have the appearance of creating water from nowhere.

Or you could pave the river for the same effect

[Inquisitor Saturn]

That would just be silly.

[Nexan]

So I've got the tower about half dug out now. I would be further along, but thanks to a few goblin sieges I wasn't prepared for and a tantrum spiral that killed off at least 60 dwarfs, I've got a pretty small working population. I think it'd be in the best interest of my dwarfs to move the water source inside already, though, so I decided to go ahead and dig out the reservoir now, which brings me to the reason for my post.

Although aesthetics are secondary at this point, I don't want my future waterfalls to run dry, so my question is, do you have to worry about the ratio of inflow to outflow when dealing with infinite sources and sinks? The brook flows into the map with 4 tiles of water, and I've got waterfalls flowing out of my moat that look roughly like this:

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#+++####
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How big should the inflow from my moat and the outflow from the pool at the bottom be so that I don't flood my fortress or have waterfalls that are just, uh, falls?

[Inquisitor Saturn]

I think I may have found exactly what you're looking for. A brook running right by a steep cliff which drops about ten z-levels. It even seems to be the right shape, with a V-shaped cliff between two cliff faces closer in. On this jutting portion of the cliff there are bauxite and magnetite veins exposed. As a bonus, a short distance away is a magma pipe.

To find it, use the search function with the following settings: 2x2 area, river on, magma pipe on, flux on, aquifer OFF. There are cliff faces on both sides of the brook, but this one faces west.



Parameters:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Created in DF v0.28.181.40d15.

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:Waterfall place]
   [SEED:2648931356]
   [HISTORY_SEED:617326992]
   [NAME_SEED:485977944]
   [DIM:129:129]
   [END_YEAR:1050]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:1600:1600]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:1600:1600]
   [TEMPERATURE:25:75:500:500]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:1600:1600]
   [VOLCANISM:1:100:1600:1600]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:1600:1600]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:100:1:100:75:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:20:10:5:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:20]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:20:1:1:1:100]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
   [OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:3]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:100]
   [RIVER_MINS:300:300]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_RIVER:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_POOL:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_M_POOL:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_CHASM:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_PIT:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:20]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:20000]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

[Firnagzen]

Your site, it is awesome. I steals it.

It has bauxite forming the walls of the magma pipe. And no less than two exposed veins of magnetite. The entire place is made of red sand and flux.

[Inquisitor Saturn]

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Despite the lack of adamantine, I have trouble finding a site with so many fun uses.

I noticed today there's a ten z-level waterfall just to the south of the site.