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[Rooster]

Funny stuff.
That's how Toady said he wants to do magic.
I completely agree on this. If I wanted to play D&D I would do that.
I want to play DF. Showing mabye a little twisted, but a fun folklore type of tale.
Like going to the faeries cave and getting magic power from them.

[blah28722]

It would be awesome if DF magic only does very simple things at varying magnitudes, but the physics makes it awesome.

Just my two cents though.

Examples:

Generate Heat- Low levels range from warming a dwarf from freezing to cold. Mid level melts ice. Extreme levels vaporize all objects in a large radius.

Generate Cold- Low level generates a happy thought. Mid level solidifies magma. Extreme level freezes entire map, generates a snow storm, and turns anyone without adequate protection into a frozen corpse.

Generate Water - Low level cures thirst. Mid level makes a room muddy. Powerful level spawns a 100/7 tile of water that explodes and pushes people with water. Extreme level floods the map.

Transmute - Low level turns a rock into a valuable metal. Mid level turns a creature into a masterwork statue. Extreme level turns terrain into magma.

You know, stuff like that.

[Rowanas]

I thought one magus should be able to do pretty much sod all. A single dwarf could, say, double the rate of magma regeneration in a tube. If two dwarves happen to do that at the same time then suddenly it's quadruple (2x2), if more and more magi join in it would increase to 32 or 64 times magma regeneration. Now, this sounds impressive, but imagine what it would actually mean in game. Things would flood, dams would break and shatter releasing precious magma all over the place, your magma moat would overflow and wreak untold havoc...

Little tiny effects, almost imperceptible, joining up to make you shit yourself.

[lucusLoC]

@ Capntastic

To let someone who does have a strong oppinion take it to one of the many relavant discussions on magic.

edit: added target of the reply

[Granite26]

One thing that I have a hard time understanding is that the Topic creator is infering that there are people who want magic to be truely random.

Truely random magic is a bit too far in my oppinion. It also seems to be something that most people would be against.

Even with artifacts, you never have control over what powers it gets, however the magic the artifact uses is always the same (unless altering itself is one of its attributes).

So how random are we speaking about? Just invoking spheres and hoping you get a possitive event?

How random it is should itself be random   (seriously... different worlds, different metaphysics...  Each time you world-gen, you've got to figure out how to play all over again, although boring people could hardset their settings)

[lucusLoC]

i did not realise this thread had gotten so long when i made that last reply. small screen and all. anyhoo, i was just saying that whoever wants to can take this idea and run with it somewhere else. i do not read most of the magic threads, since i do not have much to contribute. this is just my one zimbabwean cent. you may discuss it here of course, just dont expect much imput from me. that was about all i had on the subject. do with it what you will.

[jseah]

In short, what other game can replicate FAIRY TALE magic, instead of D&D magic?

No other game has even tried.  Dwarf Fortress could do it.  Let technology be reliable.  Let magic be MAGIC.

Yes, that's all well and good.  But you have to remember it's a computer game at heart.  Computer games follow rules. 

If it follows rules, it can be exploited. 

I freely admit that I'll be one of those trying my best to do so. 

[Rowanas]

Luckily the computer can have a random table of things that can happen when magi cast magic of specific spheres, so it follows rules for creating chaos. The whole point of magic should be that magi do "something" and you have to turn it to your advantage. some things will be easier to turn to the advantage, other things... not so much.

Basically our entire use of magic should be exploiting the chaos for gain.

[Vester]

I don't want magic to be advanced technology.  I don't want magic to be at all reliable.  I want magic to be magic, from the root word MYSTERY, meaning "That which I don't understand".  Anything reliable is understandable, anything predicatable is understandable.  On the other hand, magic still needs to do stuff-- but it should be chaotic in the mathematic sense of slight changes in the setup leading to VASTLY different results.  The difference between summoning a tiny imp to do your bidding and summoning a spirit of fire who starts bahaving like a noble in your fort, walking down the halls like he lives there while starting fires and making demands for better furnature in its room.

Why do I want this?  Because dwarf fortress could be the first game I know of to be ABLE to do this.  What other game could you make a love potion in, and have that love potion have a non-scripted plot related effect?  What other game could you have magic that just makes people feel uncomfortably creeped out in a location?  What other magic can exact a cost of your ability to play music as a price for power?

In short, what other game can replicate FAIRY TALE magic, instead of D&D magic?

No other game has even tried.  Dwarf Fortress could do it.  Let technology be reliable.  Let magic be MAGIC.

That was beautiful. I'm going to sig the last line.

[Bricks]

any suficiently advanced technology is indistiguishable from magic.

I feel like you are abusing the purpose of this aphorism.  The point is, to an observer, the difference between highly advanced technology and magic is indistinguishable.  Not that technology and magic are indistinct, or that magic IS technology, or that DF wizards should fly around in space ships.

I"d be awfully disappointed if a wizard was nothing less than a chaotic, demanding noble, who assists on a whim.  Also, he should have the annoying tendency to magic himself away from cave-ins, drowning chamber, and magma traps.  More than one wizard in a fortress should be incredibly rare, if not impossible (for vanilla DF).  I could see an additional magic user, such as a high priest, or similar, but that should have different purposes.

[Rowanas]

So you think that there should only be one mage, and any other magic bearing person should be related to the gods? Seems fair, but I don't want those priests casting magic directly, and I think limiting magi to 1 per fortress would mean that individual magi would have to be quite powerful to make them worthwhile. Having more means that you can make it so that only groups of magi can pool the requisite power for grand acts.

[Hummingbird]

Perhaps off-topic:

What IS the way Toady wants to do magic?

[Granite26]

Should create a sense of awe and wonder in the player, rather than being just another game mechanic

[Rowanas]

Which is why chaotic and unspecifiable magic is the way to go.

[Neonivek]

Which is why chaotic and unspecifiable magic is the way to go.

But shouldn't the years and centuries of study and craft go into information on the extent of the spells as well as the player's own skills?

Though this is excluding Wizard mode as always (Since those guys are beyond everything else in terms of magic)