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Author Topic: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife  (Read 31924 times)

Vester

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #285 on: August 28, 2009, 05:21:49 pm »

You feel that time has passed instantly, yes, because between the hours 10:00 and 6:00 AM, you were unconscious with no way to tell how much time was passing.

However, of course, time still passes. The laws of nature don't break down just because you're asleep.
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"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Chutney

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #286 on: August 28, 2009, 05:26:53 pm »

There's life on Jupiter. Don't tell me there isn't because no one has seen it, I have seen it.
Solid. Proof.

And as long as we kept dreaming while we were dead, I would be A-OK with dying = sleeping.
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Vester

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #287 on: August 28, 2009, 05:30:14 pm »

Well, since your neurons stop firing, probably not. :(

Life on Jupiter? PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

...

Really though. On Jupiter? I mean, on the moons of Jupiter would make sense, since there's something solid to live on.
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"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Psyco Jelly

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #288 on: August 28, 2009, 05:55:46 pm »

Well, since your neurons stop firing, probably not. :(

Life on Jupiter? PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

...

Really though. On Jupiter? I mean, on the moons of Jupiter would make sense, since there's something solid to live on.
Spoiler: PICS IT DID HAPPEN (click to show/hide)
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Vester

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #289 on: August 28, 2009, 05:57:53 pm »

The image seems to be broken.

I MUST SEE THIS LIFE.
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"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Psyco Jelly

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #290 on: August 28, 2009, 05:58:46 pm »

It's not broken. The image exists because I have seen it.

Here it is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 06:02:30 pm by Psyco Jelly »
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Muz

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #291 on: August 28, 2009, 06:11:24 pm »

Sorry to break up the chain here,but wouldn't die be the same as sleeping?Time passes instantly untill you awake.Expect you don't,so time passes till the next phase of human tech or some kind of godly power.

That's pretty much the theory in some religions even. Other religions claim that there's some period between death and afterlife, where you're still conscious.
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Vester

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #292 on: August 28, 2009, 06:16:19 pm »

It's not broken. The image exists because I have seen it.

Here it is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's like seeing heaven, only with a raptor's head.

Sorry to break up the chain here,but wouldn't die be the same as sleeping?Time passes instantly untill you awake.Expect you don't,so time passes till the next phase of human tech or some kind of godly power.

That's pretty much the theory in some religions even. Other religions claim that there's some period between death and afterlife, where you're still conscious.

Reminds me a bit of old Greek religion, with the cycle of reincarnation.
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Armok

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #293 on: August 28, 2009, 07:25:57 pm »

No, it is NOT just a 3d representation, i can do the 3d representation as well and it's very different from actual 4d. No, I don't claim I have proved it in any scientifically righteous way here, because it's just some random internet forum and not worth the trouble. If a psychologist and an MRI apparatus were available it might be provable, but even then it's borderline.
This is NOT the same as claiming there is a raptor on Jupiter or something, first, there is no reason why it wouldn't be true and I know it, in difference to for example the raptor which implies interplanetary flight and what not, there is no physiological, biological, physical, or any other scientific law that states thinking in 4d would be impossible, Secondly, it's something that goes on in my head, thus highly subjective, as well as the actual action of "thinking in 4d" is not really explicitly defined, meaning that the very act itself is DEFINED by my personal experience.
The reason why most people are incapable of multidimensional thinking is simply that they never needed to, if you ask a good mathematician he/she/it can probably do it easily (of coarse, defining what is a "good" mathematician is subject to the true Scotsman fallacy.). It is a simple skill really, you just need to know the theory and then practice.


On the sleep-is-like-death stuff, that is one reason I abhor doing it, every night I am forced to die, and I find it terrifying...
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #294 on: August 28, 2009, 07:51:25 pm »

Wow. So it turns out the one thing that can get Armok riled up is discussion of perceiving 4dimentional space.

Who'da thunk it.
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RAM

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #295 on: August 28, 2009, 08:04:30 pm »

Actually, life on Jupiter makes a great deal of sense to me, if it was anywhere else we would probably know about it, but you could hide stuff like that on Jupiter and we probably wouldn't even know what to look for...

I've explained this thrice now.
I don't believe I have seen any justification or descriptions, it seems more like you are stating it than explaining it.

A four dimensional model is easy, the fourth dimension in which it exists is not, representing it three dimensionally is difficult, visually representing it in three dimensions is just plain brutal and the obviously necessary data loss will reduce the effect. This is not pure maths, it is not referring to calculations, nor is this a purely visual representation, this is about generating an imaginary four dimensional construct, understanding its properties and being able to manipulate it consistently without resorting to calculations.
 One place to start would be by doubling the shape. A line is one dimensional and has only one parallel plane, two lines have two parallel planes, so does a square. A square has 2 parallel planes, transect it with a line and it has 3, the line appears to be parallel with the square, but it isn't, and as your rotate the square it behaves in a manner completely inconsistent with two dimensional shapes. If you add a dimension the line is easily rendered on the third dimension, but without a third dimension it is difficult to model but you can still understand that shapes you place along the edges of the line do not overlap with the square, even though they would if rendered two-dimensionally. A 4 dimensional cube equivalent, lets call it a fourth-power-shape is simple, it consists of two cubes, all the corners of the cubes are connected by straight lines, the same length as all other lines, that do not transect the cubes or other lines, the centre of the shape lies in the 4th dimension at the point between the two cubes, which will seem to overlap but do not. It is unfortunate that people don't generally render in three dimensions, a good rule of thumb is that if it still has diagonals then you are still using a perspective, probably a three-dimensional one, remember that the cubes are only the ends, and it doesn't have and mass until you fill in the 4th dimension. It is kind of fun to stick cubes onto the edges of one of these shapes. It is all rather abstract, but I could play a 4 dimensional ball game, I would stink at it, but it certainly isn't magic...

Of course, we can only detect 3 dimensions, if we live in an extra-dimensional world then we appear to be stuck on the surface of it, much like drawings on a piece of paper in three dimensional space...

This is interesting...
I haven't read this but is sounds useful.


I find it interesting that someone implied that viewing a temporal object in its entirety is the realm of god. God always seems to exist in the realms that are presently unattainable to us. I suppose that death will remain the realm of god until we manage to transmit data from beyond it...
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Gunner-Chan

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #296 on: August 28, 2009, 08:08:45 pm »

Wow. So it turns out the one thing that can get Armok riled up is discussion of perceiving 4dimentional space.

Who'da thunk it.

It's because it requires him to admit he's not special in any way.


Honestly, time isn't even a dimension. It's a concept.
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Vester

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #297 on: August 28, 2009, 08:09:00 pm »

Actually, life on Jupiter makes a great deal of sense to me, if it was anywhere else we would probably know about it, but you could hide stuff like that on Jupiter and we probably wouldn't even know what to look for...

It would have to survive ludicrous pressure. Also its metabolism would be completely different, based on the gases of Jupiter's atmosphere. Physically? Maybe it would be some sort of sentient wispy thing. So while there could certainly be life, we can't possibly imagine what it would be like.

(Although I still say raptor heads are the most sensible)

I find it interesting that someone implied that viewing a temporal object in its entirety is the realm of god. God always seems to exist in the realms that are presently unattainable to us. I suppose that death will remain the realm of god until we manage to transmit data from beyond it...

Yes, that's the idea. The more we learn about our universe, the less god there is in it. Yet the common concept of God (capitalized - I'm talking about the Christian one) is something entirely beyond the physical, but rather it is the metaphysical. An idea, basically.
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"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Chutney

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #298 on: August 28, 2009, 08:17:27 pm »

Well Armok. Imagine you're on a 2-dimensional plane. Try to perceive the 3rd dimension. being a 3rd dimensional being, you might be biased and say "oh yes I can totally do that" when in all reality, no. No you can't. If you've never seen the Z axis, you'd have no idea how to even pretend to envision that.

The 4th dimension is only comprehendable to us as shadows of itself in the 3rd dimension, just as only shadows o f the third dimension can be perceived in a 2 dimensional universe.

also, yes, your claim to be able to envision the fourth dimension is exactly the same as us claiming to see raptors on mars.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 08:18:58 pm by Chutney »
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Emperor_Jonathan

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Re: Is Death the End? - Bay 12's Musings of the Afterlife
« Reply #299 on: August 28, 2009, 08:24:29 pm »

also, yes, your claim to be able to envision the fourth dimension is exactly the same as us claiming to see raptors on mars.

Don't be silly.

We saw them on Jupiter.
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