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[Vester]

I think God gave us free will....

*snip*

...Let's try and make it the best Earth we can. We don't need God for that, some of us just need the presence of him to try and understand it all.

YES!

Hey Jackrabbit, since you're Catholic you probably know the Lord's Prayer, right? It comes from some gospel (I think Luke). This is what Jesus was saying - level the field, bring about peace and social justice on earth.

And then Emperor Constantine comes along and fucks everything up.

Yes I am angry at him.

[Jackrabbit]

Damn you for having a name vaguely reminiscent of Emperor Palpatine, Constantine! And for all the other stuff too!

[Vester]

Well for one thing, he's the reason the Catholic Church is so obsessed with sex today.

[Jackrabbit]

I'll admit, I know little about him.

[RAM]

I think God gave us free will.
Every atrocity committed on this planet, by humans, happened because of humans. God had no part, whether or not humans did it in his name. If he intervenes, then there is no free will. Sure, bad things happen, but he's God, I somehow think he's desensitized to suffering and I'd rather work things out on my own then have to be babysat by a divine being.

If god has no role in life what sense does it make that god would have a role after it, all the same arguments apply so long as you exist. If you expect an afterlife with a god in it then you should look at what that god has done with this world. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if they bring a human into this world then it is going to get up to some pretty bad stuff, if humans can figure it out then why couldn't god? God either doesn't share our interests, doesn't care about us, or doesn't exist, regardless of which it is I don't hold out much hope for a divinely inspired afterlife that I want to be a part of...

[Jackrabbit]

Yeah. But if this guy is everything we think he is, he would know if we eventually destroyed ourselves. As for why he created us in the first place if he's not going to interfere, is it too much to believe in life for life's sake? Because I believe in the big bang and evolution and all that. I just think God knew it was going to happen.

I'm a confusion person with conflicting ideals, but I overcome that by living my life the best I can and not thinking about it too much.

[Vester]

Let's bring up metaphysics again, since it's the only branch of sheer useless pedantry Philosophy I'm familiar with.

First define God. The god of many non-atheist scientists, a lot of prominent Catholic theologians, and I think the Pope, is entirely different from the popular misconception of what a God should be like.

Catholically: God is creator and sustainer. Theologically: God is ultimate end.

Scientifically: god is merely the prime mover, not necessarily the sustainer.

[RAM]

If it was a case of life for life's sake then it was done by something with limited resources, otherwise we wouldn't have any reason to be discussing an afterlife...

[Killas[SiN]]

If it was a case of life for life's sake then it was done by something with limited resources, otherwise we wouldn't have any reason to be discussing an afterlife...

Bleh. I don't under stand the above sentence. Someone clarify? I'm kinda tired...

[Vester]

Yes, clarification please! 

[Jackrabbit]

If it was a case of life for life's sake then it was done by something with limited resources, otherwise we wouldn't have any reason to be discussing an afterlife...

But surely something with infinite resources could create life simply because they wanted life to be created?

[RAM]

If it was that enthusiastic about life then life wouldn't be so fragile doomed...

[Jackrabbit]

I really don't believe that Earth is the only planet with life. If you can accept that a higher power either caused the Big Bang, or created life (I prefer the former. I don't think God created the world in 7 days) then it's not a stretch to imagine that there are other planets that he/she/it created. And life can come from almost nothing, so short of the destruction of the entire universe (and that could well cause the creation of another) I don't think there's a chance of life ever stopping, ever.

Edit: In fact, hypothesizing (stupidly, bear with me), the heat death of the universe could well cause another Big Bang, which would suggest we're not the first universe to come into existence. But that gets me thinking about infinity and to be perfectly honest, I'm a short lived human, that scares the crap out of me.

[Vester]

I really don't believe that Earth is the only planet with life. If you can accept that a higher power either caused the Big Bang, or created life (I prefer the former. I don't think God created the world in 7 days) then it's not a stretch to imagine that there are other planets that he/she/it created. And life can come from almost nothing, so short of the destruction of the entire universe (and that could well cause the creation of another) I don't think there's a chance of life ever stopping, ever.

Edit: In fact, hypothesizing (stupidly, bear with me), the heat death of the universe could well cause another Big Bang, which would suggest we're not the first universe to come into existence. But that gets me thinking about infinity and to be perfectly honest, I'm a short lived human, that scares the crap out of me.

The Big Crunch. Eventually all matter in the universe will recompact, according to one theory.

[Jackrabbit]

I knew I had heard that somewhere before.