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[Malsqueek]

I was thinking tonight about Damasucs and Japanese steel.

Both of these have been around for a LONG time, and represent highly advanced skill in craftsmanship.

How do you guys feel about having a "Noble" class weaponsmith that is capable of using 1 steel, and 1 coke to create high-carbon steel (Damask) bars, which would be used to create folded steel weapons? Bladed only, of course.

I'd probably put them around 300% of Iron, since that is better than steel, and worse than the magical metals.

Only this guy would be capable of making the bars and weapons, and each would have a name, and be masterwork quality. The noble would work on nothing else.

[Capntastic]

Why would this noble be different than, say, a legendary weaponsmith who can already make masterwork things out of anything from tin to adamant?

[Malsqueek]

Because he would be the only one capable of making things that are better than anything except Adamantine....

and it makes just at more sense than differentiating between cat leather shoes, and donkey leather shoes, but not necessarily pairing them...

[Taal]

I'd have to disagree with the OP, however Im intrigued by the notion of placing dwarves with particular skills above the norm. Not perhaps at the same level as pre-determined Nobles but a solid middle class made up of the Masons, Weaponsmith, Armoursmith and Metalsmith. Those who craft with the gifts of Mother mountain. However I do this already, and with Burrows in the next version I'll be able to live it out even further so I find hard coding it, or anything similar more of a constraint to the player then a positive.

[Tlaon]

It would be interesting if new immigrants could bring new skills and new ideas to your fortress.  New forging techniques, as the OP mentioned, is a great example of this.  I'd like it if getting new migrants had a little more upside.  Right now it seems like the only people who show up are the ones with no marketable skills and no prospects.

[Pilsu]

Right now it seems like the only people who show up are the ones with no marketable skills and no prospects.

Well duh. Mind you, there's little reason for people that show up a year after you would suddenly have new techniques to share. This would have to be exceedingly rare


Japanese steel was in fact complete shit. They folded it because they had to, not because NIPPON IS SUPERIOR!!1 As for Damascus steel, that was a one of a kind ore deposit. Not quite adamantine but far more rare. If you were suggesting variable ore quality I might agree but this smith doesn't make any sense

[Tlaon]

Right now it seems like the only people who show up are the ones with no marketable skills and no prospects.

Well duh. Mind you, there's little reason for people that show up a year after you would suddenly have new techniques to share. This would have to be exceedingly rare.

It makes sense for people with new ideas to want to go to someplace new.  In a place where traditions are old and established, it's hard for new ideas, even valuable ones, to gain a foothold.  Journeying to a new fortress allows dwarven innovators to establish their own reputation out of the shadow (and perhaps the greedy clingy hands) of their former masters or teachers.

Of course, new ideas would be rare.  I wasn't suggesting that they'd be common.  Only that they'd show up once in a while.  Early immigration should tend to select for two groups: the unwanted chaff, all but kicked out of the old society, and the ambitious dwarves who recognize that there is no room for them in the calcified halls of power.  Right now, we only get people from the first category.

[Bricks]

Its very sensible for the experience and talents of immigrants to be proportional, in some way, to your accumulated wealth and specific exports.

I've somewhat grown to hate the title "noble" because too many specialists are crammed into that description.  I don't think it should be a hard-coded event, nor should it be required, but the ability to attract legendary craftsmen to your fort makes sense.  It sort of reminds me of what toady either is doing or has done with upgrading squads, where a squad leader can create and teach specific formations.  A dwarf with a particularly advanced style could have his name affixed to each item he creates, elevating the work of legendary craftsmen.  The styles themselves could be a fixed +x% to the quality of the item, or it could protect a specific part of the body particularly well, pierce armor better, etc.  Training a high-quality craftsman should be possible, but Legendary should only be acquired under special circumstances.  (Not that a legendary worker couldn't rise from your own fort).

[Fieari]

Just add craft knowledge in the same vein as Toady's medical knowledge system.  Cap skill depending on knowledge (so you can't be legendary until you know everything there is to know about the craft).  There, done.

[Neonivek]

Japanese steel was in fact complete shit. They folded it because they had to

Well I thought it was because metal was soo expencive that doing it any other way was a total waste.

Anyhow I am against redundant nobles. There is no reason why a Noble smith would be able to do it and an ordinary smith wouldn't.

Heck I barely tollerate the Dungeon Master.

A Court Magician in other settings made sense because it cost so much to keep and train a wizard that they couldn't do it with anyone else.

Then again in some civilisations people were able to pay their way into nobility.

Also Nobility is more accurately: VIP

[Bricks]

Just add craft knowledge in the same vein as Toady's medical knowledge system.  Cap skill depending on knowledge (so you can't be legendary until you know everything there is to know about the craft).  There, done.

So, to be clear:  You are suggesting that, for example, a smith who has experience working with iron, shouldn't be able to reach legendary without also gaining experience with steel?  Could work, though I foresee a lot of problems and frustrations for players.

[Neonivek]

It is sorta in a way "Stagnating" your abilities Bricks.

Without challenging yourself further the individual's abilities should reach a point where they cannot reasonably get further in their profession.

[eerr]

what if dwarves (proficient to legendary)
had a chance of developing a new technique with every xp they gained?

these techniques would be rare like strange moods, and wouldn't give as much xp.

But they would outshine artifacts as you can use them over and over again to produce slightly better weapons/armour/tables, whatever.

Said dwarves would work harder to develop these techniques  while working on the item.

[Malsqueek]

what if dwarves (proficient to legendary)
had a chance of developing a new technique with every xp they gained?

these techniques would be rare like strange moods, and wouldn't give as much xp.

But they would outshine artifacts as you can use them over and over again to produce slightly better weapons/armour/tables, whatever.

Said dwarves would work harder to develop these techniques  while working on the item.

I actually really like this vein a LOT better than my original  idea...

Have two or three "rare" producables (per reasonable skill) that can be discovered, or brought to your fortress, by legendary craftsmen, which would have some significant benefit over the regular stuff.

Would be especially useful, what with the new medical and poison stuff coming in, as well as the magic stuff down the road...

Would certainly give us another "milepost" to shoot for before letting our fortresses go down in a flaming tantrum spiral...

[Hyndis]

The dungeon master already is this. At least, if you let him become a legendary weaponsmith.

He will perform all metal working skills, along with animal training.