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[still blinking icons]

normally I hate this, but for once: we totally need this!!!111

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Of8cm0kS8&feature=related

I say, this is what really started Toady on including a water/flooding model

Now the actual suggestions:

1) make rock salt dissolve when in contact with water. This would make mining a more daring avtivity. It could also be used for creating huge domes (an' stuff).
2) add oil pockets. They make walls neither damp nor warm, so no warning. You could be merciful and make them rather small. Oily floors would be slippery and need soap!! to be cleaned

[alfie275]

And create danger if dwarfs ever need to carry lamps.

[Kanddak]

I'm not terrifically excited about either of those suggestions, but that video is one of the dwarfiest things I have ever seen and everyone should watch it. It's like the real-life, large-scale version of someone accidentally flooding their fort.

[Malsqueek]

I'm not too concerned about the Salt, but the Oil...


Process with Tar into Naptha. Dispense via traps, light on fire with flaming arrows. FWOOSH! Lavish Goblin Roast party at the fortress entrance!

[LegoLord]

1) make rock salt dissolve when in contact with water. This would make mining a more daring avtivity. It could also be used for creating huge domes (an' stuff).

This process is no where near as quick as the dissolving of table salt might lead you to believe.  Water can only dissolve so much table salt, and a rock formation made out of it will be much, much larger than those little grains.

As for number 2 . . . Maybe?  For what real ends Malsqueak would be going for, here might be a good place to look into:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire

I do remember learning in World History that Greek Fire was used to fend off some Crusaders' wooden siege towers at some crusades battle (I think the Crusaders just tore out the stones from the base of the wall when that happened, though . . .).

[Pilsu]

How exactly do oil deposits work in real life? Probably not little pockets

Depth probably won't be an issue seeing we find magma all the time.

[JoshuaFH]

A river... reversed direction!? Damn.

Whirlpools probably won't get as detailed in DF, but it would be awesome. Especially with the way it sucks in everything around it.

[Silverionmox]

How exactly do oil deposits work in real life? Probably not little pockets

Depth probably won't be an issue seeing we find magma all the time.

There are four requirements necessary to form an oil deposit:  1) there must be a source rock, 2) there must be a heating event, 3) there must be a reservoir rock, and 4) there must be a trapping mechanism.  The source rock must contain abundant organic matter.  The best source rocks are organic-rich shales, limestones and sandstones which contain 0.5 % to 5 % organic matter. The organic material liquefies during the heating event, converting to hydrocarbons in the process. ...
Oil can form in only a restricted temperature range (approximately 150 to 350 degrees F).
...
Trap rocks, or “cap” rocks, are those which form an impermeable layer which stops oil migration.  Examples of good trap rocks include shale and salt, because of their low porosity and fine grain size.  The trap rock must be situated above the reservoir rock, to stop the upward migration of the oil.

[Arkenstone]

A river... reversed direction!? Damn.

Whirlpools probably won't get as detailed in DF, but it would be awesome. Especially with the way it sucks in everything around it.

Not just the river, but the whole Gulf of Mexico!

And I think that sense water pressure has been programmed, whirlpool would actually work (and kill framerate; but I've got a quad-core, so I'll test this).

[corvvs]

A river... reversed direction!? Damn.

Whirlpools probably won't get as detailed in DF, but it would be awesome. Especially with the way it sucks in everything around it.

Not just the river, but the whole Gulf of Mexico!

And I think that sense water pressure has been programmed, whirlpool would actually work (and kill framerate; but I've got a quad-core, so I'll test this).

Not precisely - water pressure doesn't take the Coriolis effect into account (does the world even rotate? Maybe it's like Discworld).

[Footkerchief]

1) make rock salt dissolve when in contact with water. This would make mining a more daring avtivity. It could also be used for creating huge domes (an' stuff).

This process is no where near as quick as the dissolving of table salt might lead you to believe.  Water can only dissolve so much table salt, and a rock formation made out of it will be much, much larger than those little grains.

It's still an extremely feasible idea.  The game already tracks whether water is salty or not.  So, fresh water that comes into contact with a rock salt wall (or floor) has a chance of dissolving the salt and itself becoming salty.  Once salty, it can no longer dissolve anything.  You could even use the mining effect (the crosshatches drawn on the rock wall) to give the appearance of gradual dissolution.  It's a rough and ready approximation but I think it'd work great.

[Belteshazzar]

And I think that sense water pressure has been programmed, whirlpool would actually work (and kill framerate; but I've got a quad-core, so I'll test this).

A quad core won't save your framerate, Dwarf Fortress isn't multithreaded yet so only one core will be used by the program. This does mean that the other cores won't lock up and can still run seperate programs... but only the base speed of a single one of your processors will determine the game speed.

[blah28722]

And I think that sense water pressure has been programmed, whirlpool would actually work (and kill framerate; but I've got a quad-core, so I'll test this).

A quad core won't save your framerate, Dwarf Fortress isn't multithreaded yet so only one core will be used by the program. This does mean that the other cores won't lock up and can still run seperate programs... but only the base speed of a single one of your processors will determine the game speed.

Quad core can help by allocating all computing except DF to other cores.

That said, DF is best run on a dual core for now.

[Arkenstone]

Done: http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-6815-wireprophets

And I still got 75 FPS

[Stromko]

It would actually be really cool if effects like that could happen. It'd make for a truly stupendous disaster, and therefore incredible Fun. It also fits into how the next release is trying to make the underground a bit more 'interesting'.

The current system where bodies of water tend to have silt and mud around them would allow it to be naturally stabilized, just waiting for some foolish person to make a reservoir for their fortress well and not realize part of it's salty stone, cue the entire fortress being undermined and ... well we'd actually need a more sophisticated cave-in system like in 2D DF for that to be a disaster, most likely you'd just end up with your fortress suspended above a salty underground lake. Which is cool, but not as Fun as it could possibly be.

In the case of that Louisiana lake that breached the mine, it sounds like it would've had lots of surface area where the fresh water from the drilling hole could flow against the salt walls thanks to the mining tunnels. So I wonder if a case where water was simply pressed against an undisturbed (non-hollow) salty rock wall would still cause rapid erosion. Maybe it would still happen, it would just take more time as the water slowly dissolved just the little bit of salt that it was able to get at.

I could imagine this being replicated in Dwarf Fortress, but the potential I see for FPS-killing is not just when you have a lot of flows going through your fortress, but that in such a situation you'd have hundreds of walls being destroyed at once. I usually notice a great deal of lag if I have several miners ramping out walls, or to a lesser extent if they're doing a lot of mining, so I wonder if hundreds of salt walls being dissolved at once would just kill a fort's FPS for hours on end.

The toughest part about having this in DF, I think, would be the potential for fortresses to get lagged to death without the user having any idea why. As an old-timer it seems worth it to me just for the Fun factor, but it could make things really tough on newbies.

Though I can't imagine it not being an Init option (Salt Erosion Yes/No), so that'd solve that problem. All that's left is all the bug-hunting and initial work to put it in.