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Author Topic: No technology cap.  (Read 2110 times)

Dasleah

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No technology cap.
« on: May 14, 2008, 06:41:00 am »

We've had a lot of suggestions regarding what level of technology DF should cap at, whether or not it's 'realistic' to give Dwarves such things as gunpowder and the like. So here's my suggestion.

We include them all.

But - we make each 'level' of technology an order of magnitude more difficult to achieve than the last. So, for the vast majority of players, they'll still have DF at the levels of technology that we have now - but for those players who want to put the excruciating amount of required effort in, I don't think we should punish them.

The only limit in this game should be the creativity of the player.

So we should have things like more advanced application of steam power, gunpowder, rudimentary electricity. But in order to reach those levels, the requirements should be nothing less than insane. The sort of thing that the average player wouldn't even come close to. But it'd give us something to work towards and envy for those players who get there.

So, your ideas? Should DF be permanently stuck in one technological age? Or should the only ceiling be circumstance and creativity?

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Citizen of Erl

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 06:53:00 am »

Thank god someone agrees with me. We need Tac nukes and we need them now.
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Dasleah

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 06:58:00 am »

Well, I wouldn't push it that far. Certainly a Dwarven Alchemist should be able to enrich a Powder Keg Bomb with some Cobalt or something to replicate the effect, however   ;)

I'd say... anything invented before 1900 is fair game?

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Kagus

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 07:04:00 am »

Okay.  That includes the tripod-mounted 1895 .303 caliber Maxim machine gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maxim_machine_gun_Megapixie.jpg

Silverionmox

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 07:07:00 am »

I think the relevant question is: what do we allow the AI civilizations to do, and what do they strive for? Players can always self-limit or edit init.txt, after all.
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Dasleah

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 07:10:00 am »

I don't think I've highlighted the sheer insane difficulty of reaching that level, though. I mean, it should take you at least 50-70 years to reach basic electricity. And even then, only if you manage to obtain the right kind of conductive metals, brew the right kind of battery acids, live in a lightning-prone area, have enough copper, have enough Dwarves with the Maintenance labour switched on, are close enough to rubber trees and ensure that all your Dwarves have non-conductive clothes on, and especially don't mind the inevitable catastrophic failures that will happen, vaporising half your Fort's population into a fine, carbon-laced, ozone-smelling mist.

quote:
I think the relevant question is: what do we allow the AI civilizations to do, and what do they strive for? Players can always self-limit or edit init.txt, after all.

Well, during World-Gen, I would suggest letting one of each race to reach the limit of technology, and then immediately kill them off and disable any other civ reaching that level of technology again (essentially leaving them at the same level they are now) This would help create some relics and interesting ruins to adventure around in.

And I don't really see anyone other than the Dwarves really aspiring for this sort of thing. Elves have the natural realm, Goblins the spiritual (well... the daemonically spiritual, anyway) and Kobolds simply don't care (or aren't smart enough) - so it only really makes sense for Dwarves to be the super-tech race of DF. And Humans are parasites, so they'd only be as advanced as the Dwarves they steal from (and recovering prized and ancient Dwarven technological artefacts would be another reason for war)

[ May 14, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

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Crnobog

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 07:26:00 am »

I really can't see any use dwarves might have for electricity other than lighting and that isn't going to be implemented anytime soon. Besides, we already have mean s to transfer power over a distance through gears and axles.
Charcoal or coke powered steam engines sound like something dwarves could build, but at the moment there's nothing we can do with energy other than pumping water. Gunpowder I think would be quite cool for traps, bombs and alternative marsdwarf weapons.
I don't think these things would have to be super-restricted or difficult to get since they all use up resources anyway.
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Dasleah

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2008, 07:33:00 am »

Anti-Carp Tesla Cannon.

That is all.

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Crnobog

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2008, 07:41:00 am »

Urist Zilirzuntir cancels Drink: struck by lightning
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Sevrun

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2008, 08:44:00 am »

What about the construction of true War Machines?  and I don't mean seige engines  ;)

electricity or steam power would be a necessity for those.  can you imagine the dismay of the goblins rushing your silent citadel just to have a pair or Iron statues start hissing steam, come alive and start decimating them??

but dear gods, I wouldn't wanna try coding the requirements for those beasties.

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Demon of Darkness

Appelgren

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2008, 10:01:00 am »

Who needs tactical nukes:

quote:
Originally posted by ThreeToe:
<STRONG>The next release will really set Armok apart from the rest as a really bad-ass game.  There’ll be realistic horizons, detailed trees and plant life.  You’ll feel like your lost in the wilderness and have to keep that big mountain on your left to keep going in the same direction.  Then you’ll get jumped by a wild randomly-generated predator that tracked your trail through the brush which is realized and abstracted as the monster follows your smell/footprints.

While this next release is probably the best in the game, what it really does is set us up for the Magic Release.  Little things like wind speed and ambient temperature will allow for all sorts of nasty spells.  I will now detail the nastiest:

Inspired by Ralph Bakshi cartoons like “Wizards” and “Fire and Ice” I think their should be a spell of ultimate destruction that not only obliterates the target but also curses its'  memory with evil that far outweighs anything they possibly could have done to you:


“Vengeance of the Gods” (nuclear bomb)


Ingredients:

A) First you need two lumps of a material that, when combined, form a critical mass of pure evil.  We’ll call it “Armok Rock”

B) Next you a device to store the material.  This can be any Artifact of Darkness enchanted with the proper containment spells.  Also, you’ll probably want to have your dragon or giant bat hurl this device from a safe altitude.

C) You all need a trigger.  Keeping in the spirit of Slaves to Armok, this is also variable and can be any spell or ritual that sets off the blast.  The only restriction being that the energy put into the spell must be of sufficient power and hatred to not only trigger the bomb, but also to cast the wizard’s soul into the Outer Darkness.


Instant Effects:

1: Ambient heat at ground zero raised to 300,000,000 C all non-magic material vaporized.

2: Portal to Elemental plane of Fire temporally opened sending 500ft cone of flame into sky

3: Souls of those vaporized are unleashed as angry phantoms and possibly contribute to the creation of retarded "Lay-Lines"

4: 50% chance gateway to hell is opened releasing 1-5 major demons and accompanying Hell-spawn.

5: Shock wave (High Winds?) disrupts structures and uproots trees creating flying debris, which along with fires spawned by heat account for most immediate casualties.  Also blast will awaken any sleeping Mega-Beasts or Ancient-Gods in the area.

6: 50% of those within 1600m of the blast contract the Red Death*

7: Those remaining within one mile are Cursed by the Gods**


Effects to last as long as Half-Life of material fissoned by spell:

A)  Land 60 miles around is cursed- no crops will grow, only plants and water which, if consumed, will result in contracting The Curse of the Gods**

B)  Evil aura of death and disease will attract all wicked beings to the area.

C) Any intelligent being that dies in the blast zone has a 20% chance of rising and a zombie thirsty for vengeance!

*Red Death is a disease that kills all victims in 2 months via septicemia due to failure of bone marrow.  Symptoms include vomiting, diarrhea, bleeding, blindness and hair loss.  It does not effect creatures already twisted by evil magic.

**The Curse of the Gods increases the chance of it's victims contracting fatal wasting diseases as well as making all subsequent offspring into the closest "twisted" form with an average IQ of 5 less than the parent.  In the case of humans this would be any random goblinoid.  

As you can deduce, even after the Armok Rock loses its’ power in approximately 100 years, the twisted offspring of the survivors and the evil beings called to the wasteland will continue to terrorize the surrounding region for ages to come.

Whether cast by a demented wizard or the gods themselves, I think this spell will be one of Armok’s favorites.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: ThreeToe ]</STRONG>



I love that.

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Kagus

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2008, 10:09:00 am »

So would I...  


Well, that contributed significantly to the discussion.

supremeMang

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2008, 10:17:00 am »

why do dwarves need lighting? theyre dwarves, evolved to dig around in mountains fighting goblins and amassing riches.
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Sevrun

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 10:32:00 am »

If you can't see then what's the point of all these fancy engravings?  if you're using infrared to see, you're not gonna see much in the way of detail work....  makes creating artifacts a real beyotch doesn't it?
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Demon of Darkness

Silverionmox

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Re: No technology cap.
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2008, 11:06:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by supremeMang:
<STRONG>why do dwarves need lighting? theyre dwarves, evolved to dig around in mountains fighting goblins and amassing riches.</STRONG>

Let's assume that they need some light, but much less than surface-dwellers. Besides, gems and gold don't glitter in the dark.

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