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[Enzo]

Actually, I thought changing the statues was fairly quick and painless, but I wasn't really paying close attention to that one so I may be wrong.

Also, Judas, while you do get points for the image, you also lose points for not spoilering it and having massive blackspace. Just sayin'.

[Mephansteras]

A great example of that was the statues stuff. How long did it take him to add the ability for dwarves to make different statue types? It is like the ascii version of graphics, spending time on things that increase the cool factor but not the funcitonality. If I can imagine that green "G" is something to be feared, I can imagine statue types myself.

You have to keep in mind that this sort of thing keeps Toady happy and motivated. It took him a short amount of time to add in the statue code, it was an easy task, and it was probably fun with immediate results. That sort of thing is crucial when you're working on a project by yourself. It may not be vitally important to the game by itself, but if it keeps Toady interested in the project and motivated to get through the boring stuff it is vitally important to the project as a whole.

The man has done far more then most full game teams have ever done all on his own. Don't knock a process that works just because you're impatient. I'd rather wait another six months then risk Dwarf Fortress development being canceled because Toady burned himself out slogging through the 'important' stuff.

[Bricks]

If it weren't for the development updates, and Toady's willingness to answer questions, I would probably lose interest.  If we went a whole year without anything but releases... the game would never take off.

[Fikes]

A great example of that was the statues stuff. How long did it take him to add the ability for dwarves to make different statue types? It is like the ascii version of graphics, spending time on things that increase the cool factor but not the funcitonality. If I can imagine that green "G" is something to be feared, I can imagine statue types myself.

You have to keep in mind that this sort of thing keeps Toady happy and motivated. It took him a short amount of time to add in the statue code, it was an easy task, and it was probably fun with immediate results. That sort of thing is crucial when you're working on a project by yourself. It may not be vitally important to the game by itself, but if it keeps Toady interested in the project and motivated to get through the boring stuff it is vitally important to the project as a whole.

The man has done far more then most full game teams have ever done all on his own. Don't knock a process that works just because you're impatient. I'd rather wait another six months then risk Dwarf Fortress development being canceled because Toady burned himself out slogging through the 'important' stuff.

I agree that the best thing for all of us is that Toady stays interested in the project, it that means taking some time for the Month End project or coding in fun stuff that is fine.

The problem is that bringing so many features in so early in the development (I think it is technically alpha right?) means a lot of maintenance for those features, which isn't fun. Enemies and critters have to be updated at the raw level when seemingly unrelated features are added or removed.

Another thing to keep in mind is that massively complex undertakings, like the damage system of ribs being crushed into lungs, sound totally bad ass but in reality, might be so complicated Today gets burnt out and in the end turn out to be eye candy more than anything.

[Dakk]

A happier toady means a better DF, a better DF means happier players, happier players means more donations, and more donations means a better bay12. Thus, as long toady is happy, everyone is.

[Jay]

Spoiler: Long Post (click to show/hide)

...

Toady, if you're reading this...please consider the effects on community morale if there continues to be no new releases.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html
If him giving you a an almost-daily report of exactly what he's changing isn't enough for you, find a different game.

PROGRAMMING TAKES TIME.
He's working on a COLOSSAL part of the game that's all intertwined such that he can't possibly make any more releases then he already is for this arc.
Give him the time he needs and you will be rewarded with a great game.

That release was virtually indistinguishable

If you'd read the devlog, you'd know that's already impossible.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

we've had an awfully long time to build up expectations.

If you'd read the devlog, you'd know what's coming so expectations that would be let down would be impossible.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

I doubt I'm the only person to wonder why it's been so long.

While I won't deny you that, you wouldn't be wondering why it's been so long if you'd read the devlog.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

Seriously, if you're too impatient to wait for a new release with a near-daily report of what to expect from it, find a different game.

Spoiler: TL;DR (click to show/hide)

Read it, lazy sod.

[abculatter_2]

Spoiler: Long Post (click to show/hide)

...

Toady, if you're reading this...please consider the effects on community morale if there continues to be no new releases.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html
If him giving you a an almost-daily report of exactly what he's changing isn't enough for you, find a different game.

PROGRAMMING TAKES TIME.
He's working on a COLOSSAL part of the game that's all intertwined such that he can't possibly make any more releases then he already is for this arc.
Give him the time he needs and you will be rewarded with a great game.

That release was virtually indistinguishable

If you'd read the devlog, you'd know that's already impossible.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

we've had an awfully long time to build up expectations.

If you'd read the devlog, you'd know what's coming so expectations that would be let down would be impossible.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

I doubt I'm the only person to wonder why it's been so long.

While I won't deny you that, you wouldn't be wondering why it's been so long if you'd read the devlog.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

Seriously, if you're too impatient to wait for a new release with a near-daily report of what to expect from it, find a different game.

Spoiler: TL;DR (click to show/hide)

Read it, lazy sod.

TL;DR - Read the devlog.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

[Jay]

Spoiler: Long Post (click to show/hide)

...

Toady, if you're reading this...please consider the effects on community morale if there continues to be no new releases.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html
If him giving you a an almost-daily report of exactly what he's changing isn't enough for you, find a different game.

PROGRAMMING TAKES TIME.
He's working on a COLOSSAL part of the game that's all intertwined such that he can't possibly make any more releases then he already is for this arc.
Give him the time he needs and you will be rewarded with a great game.

That release was virtually indistinguishable

If you'd read the devlog, you'd know that's already impossible.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

we've had an awfully long time to build up expectations.

If you'd read the devlog, you'd know what's coming so expectations that would be let down would be impossible.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

I doubt I'm the only person to wonder why it's been so long.

While I won't deny you that, you wouldn't be wondering why it's been so long if you'd read the devlog.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

Seriously, if you're too impatient to wait for a new release with a near-daily report of what to expect from it, find a different game.

Spoiler: TL;DR (click to show/hide)

Read it, lazy sod.

TL;DR - Read the devlog.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

Mine was better 

[Eidalac]

Hrm.

Main thing, for me at least, is that the current work for the next release is not a bug-fix, it's a caravan of new features.

Yeah, the wait kinda sucks, but it's not as if the current version is badly broken or anything.

In the end, I think it's a good experience for Toady, as he'll now have a pretty good idea of just how much he can fit into a more ideal update schedule.

[LordBucket]

jaybud4
if you're too impatient to wait for a new release
find a different game.

But, you see...that's the thing. I HAVE.

I stopped playing Dwarf Fortress about 8 months ago because the current state of food and insta-champions makes the game utterly trivial to play, and I got bored with making glass and ice towers on terrifying tundra maps just to have a challenge.

And over the course of those 8 months I've come back twice to check to see if there have been updates, bugfixes, rebalances, new content...and there's hasn't been anything.

jaybud4
if you're too impatient to wait for a new release
find a different game.

As much as you enjoyed saying so...I think "find a different game" is not what Toady really wants us to do. But if he never releases...people will.

[Topace3k]

jaybud4
if you're too impatient to wait for a new release
find a different game.

But, you see...that's the thing. I HAVE.

I stopped playing Dwarf Fortress about 8 months ago because the current state of food and insta-champions makes the game utterly trivial to play, and I got bored with making glass and ice towers on terrifying tundra maps just to have a challenge.

And over the course of those 8 months I've come back twice to check to see if there have been updates, bugfixes, rebalances, new content...and there's hasn't been anything.

jaybud4
if you're too impatient to wait for a new release
find a different game.

As much as you enjoyed saying so...I think "find a different game" is not what Toady really wants us to do. But if he never releases...people will.

It's been forever since the last half life 2 release, but I'll still play the next episode when it comes out.  There's no reason to assume people will stop playing forever just because of a one year wait.  Play something else and come back in 3 months for your shiny new Dwarf Fortress game.

[thvaz]

We have to face a basic truth in life: we eventually will grow bored of everything. I think long development cycles has the advantage of bring back those people burned out by the game as long as there is a release, meaning a new flow of donations and internet hysteria. With a short time between releases, each release would have less new features, and so people would wait some releases to pick the game again anyway.

I'm a fanatic DF'er. Granted, I donated a ridiculous ammount of money to Toady, but that is because I am a student living in struggling country. If I could I would donate a lot more. And I don't play the game for almost a year. I got burned out after the last release very fast, but what kept me hooked was the constant updates in dev_now. If they didn't exist who knows when I would pick the game again.

When the release arrives, I will play it like a mad man for sure.

LordBucket: Now I am sure you are utterly ignorant about the game development. Come back in three months and try to say "Dwarf Fortress is vapourware"

[Vengeful Donut]

Let's talk a bit about mathematics, what the dev cycle is like, and what kind of behavior it breeds.
Imagine you're a mathematician and you're working on a hard problem. By hard problem I mean something nobody knows the answer to yet. One where will take you no less than a week to convince yourself you might find one. Slogging away at the same thing constantly in this way tends to be very discouraging, so you will eventually want to switch to something more interesting.
So you do it, but since you're a mathematician you end up finding another hard problem.
In this way, you end up with several problems on the back burner at the same time that you switch between as inspiration strikes you.

Now pretend you've been doing this for a while. Say you do it long enough to get through graduate school with a doctorate in mathematics and then have a teaching/research job for perhaps a year or so. This mode of behavior which tends to help in mathematics is now deeply ingrained.

When there is something requiring either a lot of slogging through (RAW definitions?) or very careful planning (cave ins?), it becomes very tempting to temporarily switch to another project; especially if you've been thinking about that one while writing this one. In this case the other project happens to also be DF.

Long release times are hardly unprecedented here, and with the amount of transparency Toady is providing on the game development there is little cause for worry. Indicators point toward a bright future for DF.


TL;DR: what's with all the gloom and doom? the one year mark isn't a big deal.

[LordZorintrhox]

Another thing to keep in mind is that massively complex undertakings, like the damage system of ribs being crushed into lungs, sound totally bad ass but in reality, might be so complicated Today gets burnt out and in the end turn out to be eye candy more than anything.

Well, the damage system in DF doesn't exactly use hitpoints; it actually is modeling the damage done to internal organs.  It's not some fancy eye candy thrown on top of "the sword inflicted 20 damage to the dwarf" to make it sound cool.  You'll stay alive as long as you still have blood and one of the insta-kill organs isn't destroyed.

So detailed damage modeling is essential; if that last blow snaps your rib and pierces your heart (actually, I don't think that can happen too easily, but bare with me), you're dead, even if the blow would have only done 1 "HP" of damage.  You may have only done a little damage to your enemy's back, but the bruising to the spinal cord made them paraplegic.

Either way, you're not going to convince Toady otherwise:

In most RPGs, hit points are something wholly replenishable. In DF, if a character loses a limb, he's not getting that back!

TA: Hit points are depressing to me. It's sort of a reflex to just have HP/MP, like a game designer stopped doing their job.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think more people are getting their kicks from the hope, anticipation and fantasizing over what DF will/could become then are actually enjoying the game itself.

I stopped playing DF to any degree more then 6 months ago and started my Khazad project to actually provide me with something interesting to do.