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[LordBucket]

The current version of Dwarf Fortress is v0.28.181.40d. It was released on September 6th of 2008. That means in 19 days it will be a full year since an official release of Dwarf Fortress.

Yes, there are some test versions (up to d14) with graphical enhcancements, but it has been a year since we've even had an official bugfix release.

Discuss.

[Neruz]

This arc is a pretty big one and is taking a fair bit to implement? It's the Army Arc innit? Which means DF suddenly needs to simulate interaction with the entire world, something which i'm pretty sure it doesn't actually do (in Dwarf Mode) at the moment.

[Capntastic]

Discuss.

You made the thread, you first.

[Scarpa]

Well I didn't start playing until March of this year so I don't have the pleasure of waiting like the rest of you. But I am pretty impressed with the scope of this next release considering it's a single developer. In fact I'd be impressed even if it was a team of developers, some most of the stuff coming up sounds pretty awesome.

[ToonyMan]

Oh jeez, I remember when the new version was coming out on July 14th.  We hit an all-time record in traffic that day you know.  Maybe we'll break it again when the next version comes out?

[LordBucket]

Capntastic
You made the thread, you first.

For several years I was a module developer for ToME. We were receiving regular engine updates every month or two, until one day they simply stopped. The lead engine developer was still accessible on the forums and mailing list, CVS updates continued to happen...but no new releases. The module community continued doing its thing, but eventually we started wondering why there were no releases. Eventually there was one. It sucked. Module development slowed to a trickle and there were no more engine releases for a year and a half. That release was virtually indistinguishable from the one before it, and it pretty much killed the project.

So, I apologize if I've been scarred by previous experience...but Dwarf Fortress is starting to look like ToME to me. Yes, Toady is still accessible, and yes, changes are still being made...

...but a year is an awfully long time to go without even a bugfix release.

Toady, if you're reading this...please consider the effects on community morale if there continues to be no new releases. Yes, at the moment there's still plenty of enthusiasm. But from my own experience with projects of this sort, it won't last forever if development stops. Also keep in mind that with an entire year of waiting...we've had an awfully long time to build up expectations. It sets you up to need something amazing. If you were to release a small bugfix release now it would probably annoy a lot of people because they've been waiting an entire year and expect something huge. Maybe you're going to deliver it, but again, a year is a long time to wait, and I doubt I'm the only person to wonder why it's been so long. Even the move to 3d did not take this long.

Look at the release history. In the year prior to the current release, there were twenty releases. In the past year we've had one.

Do you understand why I'm concerned?

[Spiral42]

From what I understand, this upcoming release has been rebuilt from the raws up - and every change in this release is effectively dependent on these new raws. Just like the change to 3D, 40d11, its associated mods and utils, and savegames will all be made redundant. Thus, any updates made to 40d11 are releases for the sake of releasing something to boost morale, which takes Toady's time away from what he's currently working on.
Unfortunately, the nature of the changes mean that everything has to be made recompatible - it's not just a matter of swapping a couple of .txt files; the entire framework of the game is being restructured to suit this stuff.
Additionally, due to the redundancy issue, I get the impression Toady wants to get most of the compatibility-breaking changes done in one hit so that such a thing won't happen again for some time.
DF will not fade away like so many vaporware projects. Armok will not allow it. And if Armok goes all rogue-like and allows it, it will have the community to answer to... in which case we should fear for the God of Blood's safety.

[LordNagash]

I think it's kind of irresponsible to start fearmongering about this before you even read up on it. The reason this has taken so long is because Toady wanted to do as many save compatibility breaking changes in one release as he could.

The stated aim of the entire game is for you to build a world through continous play, adding to the world as you go, so breaking the save compatibility every month is kind of against the core philosophy of the game.

[thvaz]

But from my own experience with projects of this sort, it won't last forever if development stops.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html

Development never stopped. All mods can go to hell as far as I care. It's the work of Toady what interests me.

[Sizik]

From what I understand, this upcoming release has been rebuilt from the raws up - and every change in this release is effectively dependent on these new raws. Just like the change to 3D, 40d11, its associated mods and utils, and savegames will all be made redundant. Thus, any updates made to 40d11 are releases for the sake of releasing something to boost morale, which takes Toady's time away from what he's currently working on.
Unfortunately, the nature of the changes mean that everything has to be made recompatible - it's not just a matter of swapping a couple of .txt files; the entire framework of the game is being restructured to suit this stuff.
Additionally, due to the redundancy issue, I get the impression Toady wants to get most of the compatibility-breaking changes done in one hit so that such a thing won't happen again for some time.
DF will not fade away like so many vaporware projects. Armok will not allow it. And if Armok goes all rogue-like and allows it, it will have the community to answer to... in which case we should fear for the God of Blood's safety.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Edited for clarity.

[PencilinHand]

From what I understand, this upcoming release has been rebuilt from the raws up - and every change in this release is effectively dependent on these new raws. Just like the change to 3D, 40d11, its associated mods and utils, and savegames will all be made redundant. Thus, any updates made to 40d11 are releases for the sake of releasing something to boost morale, which takes Toady's time away from what he's currently working on.
Unfortunately, the nature of the changes mean that everything has to be made recompatible - it's not just a matter of swapping a couple of .txt files; the entire framework of the game is being restructured to suit this stuff.
Additionally, due to the redundancy issue, I get the impression Toady wants to get most of the compatibility-breaking changes done in one hit so that such a thing won't happen again for some time.
DF will not fade away like so many vaporware projects. Armok will not allow it. And if Armok goes all rogue-like and allows it, it will have the community to answer to... in which case we should fear for the God of Blood's safety.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Thank you Mr. Montoya. <--Love that movie.

-------

I can understand the OPs concern.  The thing to remember is that Toady is living off of the donations that DF produces.  I am sure that the ramifications of a year long update are very present on his mind, as evidenced by a half dozen interviews and podcasts he has been featured in the last year or so.

He is basically rewriting the whole material, body, and fighting system while introducing "other underground features," massively expanding modding options, developing squad related functions, and laying the ground work for the rest of the Army Arc and beyond.  Some will be disappointed at the fruits of a year worth of work with the cost of every utility, mod, and saved game being broken.  But it is a matter of when you want to take your medicine.  Take it now,  when the community is largely willing, patient, and pragmatic enough to wait, or later when you don't know what or whom you might be dealing with.

The next two or three major updates will take a fraction of the time(literally) while touching on many of the current issues users have.  There will be many bug fix releases along the way as well, I am sure.

In short, yes a year long update is a concern, but Toady is already aware of the pitfalls.  I honestly expect the first release to be comically buggy but I think this is the right choice.  However, by this time next year I expect DF will be a wholly different, and better, game because of this year of hiatus.

[Vester]

Yes. We're willing to wait.

[Enzo]

Actually, a month or two ago this was a much bigger concern for me than it is now. Watching him Green stuff off the list gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside, and it's been happening quite rapidly lately. Not to mention the Devlogs and now the Podcasts, and the fact that forum traffic hasn't seemed to drop off at all since I joined...

If it wasn't for these things, the yearlong wait would certainly worry me. But as it stands? Not at all.

[Armok]

DF will not fade away like so many vaporware projects. Armok will not allow it. And if Armok goes all rogue-like and allows it, it will have the community to answer to... in which case we should fear for the God of Blood's safety.

I will not allow it, you have my word.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I agree with Lord Buckets concerns, slow releases kill projects and DF releases are dangerously far apart, the let down potential is very high after a year.