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[lucusLoC]

that's what i was going to say. we need a map/scenario editor, pretty badly.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

that's what i was going to say. we need a map/scenario editor, pretty badly.

We have.

Worldpaint utility. But only Toady knows how to use it.

[lucusLoC]

i dont think that does things to the local map, not like tweak does. and you cannot assign triggers either. i don't think.

[Seth]

I think this would be cool if it was implemented along with World generation, such as, world gen would go along as normal until it reached a certain potentially interesting battle/encounter (goblins invading a fortress or something), and you can choose whether or not to take control.  When you take control world gen pauses and then whatever you make happen happens and then world gen continues as normal.  It'd be a nice way to get more involved in the history of worlds

[Craftling]

Why would you want to win when losing is so fun?

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

I think this would be cool if it was implemented along with World generation, such as, world gen would go along as normal until it reached a certain potentially interesting battle/encounter (goblins invading a fortress or something), and you can choose whether or not to take control.  When you take control world gen pauses and then whatever you make happen happens and then world gen continues as normal.  It'd be a nice way to get more involved in the history of worlds

This is a good one.

Seconded.

[Rowanas]

That would satisfy the world gen interactivity and the after-fortress speed up that a lot of people are looking for. Excellent suggestion.

[gordy]

So by that it sounds like it would be feasible to make the world generate a map for you along cetain parameters ( build a fort, give it some woes, drop you in the middle to flounder out a solution ) and give you a time limit to accomplish it?

[ManaUser]

Actually there IS one thing like that in the game already: reclaim mode.

Anyway, beyond that I think it would be a nice extra, even if it was just something fairly simple. I'm imagining it would be set up quite similar to fortress mode, though you might get more (or less) starting equipment and dwarves as appropriate to the scenario.

Some examples of the kind of goals I'm thinking of:

Establish a successful gold mine: Mine 50 bars.
Hold the road/ford/pass: Prevent enemies from crossing the map for 3 years.
Build a road: Make a wagon-passable road across the (mountainous) map.
Build a dam: Create a reservoir containing 2000 tiles of water.
Frontier expedition: You have three years to prepare food and lodging for a baron and 80 dwarves. You get no migrants for caravans until then.

[gordy]

Yes - that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Potentially, it would be great to COMBINE some of these parameters ( and the thrill of beating the map equally great ),

- Survive a 'mood' every season for x years
- Capture two of each animal on the map and store their cages in the Ark
- Mine x bars of coal for the King each season who sends a wagon to pick it up.

actually that last one reminded me of the DUNE rpg game ( and subsequent RTS game ) where you had to mine massive quantities of Spice for the Emperor every quarter until you could afford to shake off his taxes and take the planet back for yourself.................

[Belteshazzar]

So...somewhat like Gamer Achievements/Score on XBOX live? Actually sounds fairly awesome.

Boatmurdered: Kill 100 elephants

Delve Deep, Grasp Greedily: Mine out the whole Adamatine Vein

Breadbasket: Main export product is vast quatities foodstuffs

[MMad]

Some examples of the kind of goals I'm thinking of:

Establish a successful gold mine: Mine 50 bars.
Hold the road/ford/pass: Prevent enemies from crossing the map for 3 years.
Build a road: Make a wagon-passable road across the (mountainous) map.
Build a dam: Create a reservoir containing 2000 tiles of water.
Frontier expedition: You have three years to prepare food and lodging for a baron and 80 dwarves. You get no migrants for caravans until then.

Yeah, I play the game like these kinds of goals exist now tbh. Otherwise, with no win condition and actually losing a rare occurrence once you know the game, fortresses just go on and on until you get bored of them, which I've always found kind of depressing.

The way I play DF is, I basically play like I'm given a specific mission by the king, then try to do it. Once I manage, I usually stop playing that fortress (and unfortunately the whole world, since there's no way to retire without abandoning) and start up a new one. My "mission" for the current fortress is to offer 100 jeweled goblets of precious metal to the dwarven king. Going well so far.

[Stromko]

What occurs to me reading this thread, is that what would most please people is a scenario editor so that the community can make up all sorts of insane scenarios and situations, so that Toady can offload all the content-creation and work on other things. It wouldn't be a scenario editor in the conventional sense, it would be more about loose goals or conditions that can occur in any generated world, even irrespective of modifications to creature and entity raw files.

To an extent it could be said that such things are already possible, we already have people sharing interesting sites and discussing what to do with them, nothing stopping people from sharing saves and making it a challenge-game sort of thing, and of course we've got the popular bloodlines-style games.

The way I see it we're going to need something like this sooner or later anyway. It seems to me that Toady has a keen interest in encouraging modders, and tools to allow modding of things that are currently un-moddable would naturally lead to user-made scenarios. Things like the sort of settlements that a given entity / creature would live in.

For example, people could finally make 'Orc' settlements to their taste, with crude magma smelting in open pits, all based around a tower where an evil wizard rules with an iron fist. Or an antmen city with warrens of bizarre yet organized tunnels.

I don't think we'd be well able to make stuff like this by typing into text files (it'd be rather too difficult for most of us to figure out), so it would require some sort of local map editor.

Once we have the means to determine what sort of settlement a custom entity lives in, we'd naturally want to tweak the rules of how they would operate in fortress mode, and would probably want the option to reside in these 'random' custom settlements in generated worlds. That's how, to my mind, it would naturally lead to a scenario editor.

[Sergius]

SOLVING problems sound to be the opposite of FUN.

I thought the opposite of SOLVING problems was LASAGNA.

[Arkenstone]

I don't think we'd be well able to make stuff like this by typing into text files (it'd be rather too difficult for most of us to figure out), so it would require some sort of local map editor.

Do not underestimate the Power of the Force Mod!

Besides, a simple text file that states the min/max number of pre-made (on map editor, perhaps) buildings, and their locations on a pseudo-grid (like with human towns) wouldn't be to hard to write.

The hardest part would probably programing a creature with a weapon, so I can program a Dark Lord who can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbELQq10eJ0
(Just fast forward for a minute, I couldn't find a video with only the part I wanted:P)