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[martinuzz]

I just had an idea while executing my hammerer..

As it is now, grudges are pretty rare.
Now we all know our lever-operated (noble)dwarf execution chambers, be it with retractable spikes or crushing bridges. Or magma
Now wouldn't it be nice to have the game keep track of the 'executioner' , the dwarf who pulled the lever on another dwarf..
And use this to subsequently worsen relations of the deceased dwarf's friends and family with the executioner.
How dramatic this worsening of relations should be I leave open for debate. Personally I'd say if another dwarf killed my mate just once, I'd have some kind of grudge already, yeah 
This way, the player has subtle control over developing grudges in the fortress, and the associated fell moods 

You could either use the same dwarf for executions over and over again, until he is hated by the entire fortress, by restricting the lever to be pulled only by that dwarf, or allow all dwarves to pull it, creating a more complex web of dislikes among your population.
That is, assuming you make use of execution chambers a lot.

The tracking could prove difficult with magma/ water based execution traps, so it might be best to restrict the tracking to traps, where a lever is linked to the object that directly kills a dwarf.

[Winterbrass]

Hmm. I'd say that both the execution and the lever-puller would have to be visible to a dwarf for it to become 'common knowledge'. Solved easily by having a glass execution chamber in the middle of a dining hall, however.

[Grendus]

I dunno. While it'd be fun to play with, it'd be very difficult for Toady to set up the code to understand who killed who.

It's not something I'd like to see done when there are other, more important things to do. But that's just me.

[lucusLoC]

I also think that this might cross the line for "too much controle" in the dorf relationships. I can only see it going in if the dorf has the ability to decide not to pull a lever that will kill someone.

Also the ai to figure that out would probably be a nightmare, or it could just be a simple occupancy check. I do not know.

[ArkDelgato]

I think that death levers should be rare, if ever used.

Toady mentioned that dwarves will eventually learn based on experiences.

So if deaths usually occur when levers are pulled, GUESS WHAT, levers won't be pulled.

If the last five barons were killed by magma-levers, the new baron will sure as hell stay far away from magma, and never choose to pull levers.

[Rowanas]

Which is the beauty of my particular scheme. I place noble rooms in front of my ballista range. That way when they go to sleep, I give the order to fire at will. Even if the code was sophisticated enough to realise that the bedroom causes death, they have to sleep somewhere...

[ArkDelgato]

So they seek out a different room.

They are the nobles, they will sleep in a slum if it means no ballista-y death. Or steal one of the starting sevens rooms, and force him to sleep in ballista fire.

And if they did learn, wouldn't new barons have a instinct to avoid any spaces near ballistas?

So a room near ballistas would be avoided?

[Rowanas]

Fine. I'll just give them a bedroom about 50 tiles away from the ballistabut still in the way.

While typing that sentence I wondered if there's any way to convinced a noble that EVERY course of action equal death. I could wait until the noble eats and then magma flood them. How would they react? If they eat, they die, if they don't eat, they die.

[ArkDelgato]

Maybe they will seek to eat elsewhere?

OR MASTER SAIO-LIN ARTS TO BYPASS EATING BY ENJECTING FOOD STRAIGHT INTO THE HEART.


Obviously, a system that learns would be bug-ridden for a few releases, so a noble that

CANCELS EAT: FEAR -> CANCELS FEAR: EAT

Would be fun, nonetheless.

[Vester]

Like real-life cats, they'd learn to associate unpleasant experiences with whatever they were doing at the time.

So if they were sleeping during a siege enough times, they'll "learn" that sleeping causes sieges.

And then they would never sleep again.

[ArkDelgato]

CAN'T SLEEP ELVES WILL EAT ME CAN'T SLEEP ELVES WILL EAT ME


EDIT:

Like real-life cats, they'd learn to associate unpleasant experiences with whatever they were doing at the time.
...never sleep again.

Could you REALLLLY convince a cat to never sleep?
This requires painstaking experiments and a lawsuit from PETA.

[King_of_the_weasels]

Don't be silly their not going to eat you.

Their going to kill you first, by jabbing blunt wooden swords through your body. BLUNT WOODEN SWORDS, slowly at first, but after it breaks through your bone it should be smooth sailing.

[Vester]

CAN'T SLEEP ELVES WILL EAT ME CAN'T SLEEP ELVES WILL EAT ME


EDIT:

Like real-life cats, they'd learn to associate unpleasant experiences with whatever they were doing at the time.
...never sleep again.

Could you REALLLLY convince a cat to never sleep?
This requires painstaking experiments and a lawsuit from PETA.

It wouldn't work on cats, of course, but from what we've seen of Dwarven intelligence, it'll probably work on nobles.

And PETA doesn't care about dwarves, so we can experiment on them instead.

[Tarlin]

It could be some fun but there are so many ways to dismiss the bastard that it's impossible to make such barriers to all of them.
Put a lever or pressure plate to death chamber and make him commit suicide. Force a bunch of slaves to  pump water to the room slowly. Make goblin to trig pressure plate. Anyone can invent a lot of techniques like these.
Do not propose to code something complex that will never be used but circumvented.

[martinuzz]

I doubt it will be that hard to code.. But I could be wrong.

And yes, ofcourse it can be circumvented. That's why i suggested it. It would not be fun if it were forced upon the player.
Linking it only to spike, and maybe crushing bridge traps leaves a lot of ways open for people who do not like grudges in their fortress, to get rid of nobles in different ways.

I mainly suggested it, because I know, there are quite a few players who would like to have more grudges in their fortress.