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Author Topic: Dwarven Physiology  (Read 1213 times)

Winterbrass

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Dwarven Physiology
« on: August 18, 2009, 08:46:26 am »
I've created a custom race and I created it in a manner that I considered logical, albeit starting with the torso and working outwards. Upper body is connected to the shoulder is connected to the upper arm is connected to the elbow, et cetera.

Does anyone else find it strange that in the raws, parts are not connected how one would expect them to be? A dwarf's head is connected directly to its torso, with a neck attached to the head elsewhere. Ditto for upper limbs, with the shoulders apparently randomly connected to the upper limbs somewhere, instead of the upper limbs being connected to the shoulders, connected to the torso.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Because it's very relevant to my interests, is there any particular reason that I shouldn't explicitly define the hips as internal parts of the lower body and connect the legs directly to them so that if, say, an elderly dwarf falls and breaks one, it messes up that leg?
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Neruz

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2009, 08:50:19 am »
Because the entire system is incredibly haxy and incomplete at the moment?
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Winterbrass

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2009, 08:55:37 am »
Quote from: Neruz on August 18, 2009, 08:50:19 am
Because the entire system is incredibly haxy and incomplete at the moment?
So basically, update the body file and all of the creature raws and then put them up here so that everyone can benefit from the [MANDATE]s of my OCD?
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Neruz

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2009, 09:04:10 am »
You could if you want, i have no idea what would happen if you made the bodies more realistically taped together though; possibly fun.
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GenericOverusedName

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2009, 09:04:53 am »
I've created creatures with the body plan you described. As far as I know, they work just the way you wanted them to. Go for it, and let us know what happens when you make typos! (Not fun) (Or, rather, LOTS OF FUN.)
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Winterbrass

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2009, 09:06:20 am »
Quote from: GenericOverusedName on August 18, 2009, 09:04:53 am
I've created creatures with the body plan you described. As far as I know, they work just the way you wanted them to. Go for it, and let us know what happens when you make typos! (Not fun) (Or, rather, LOTS OF FUN.)
Bleeding out/suffocation, mostly. Major injuries to every body part at embark, I've also noticed.

Suffocation due to calling the head and then the throat and THEN the upper body is quite hilarious, especially with full-body major injuries.
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GenericOverusedName

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2009, 09:44:23 am »
I'll go ahead and post my random body creations here, if you'd like. They're all animal parts (wings and the like), and they're not all complete, but for the most part it follows what you're talking about.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Winterbrass

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2009, 10:27:10 am »
Your therapod's pelvis is not [INTERNAL], and the pelvis is smaller than the hip that connects to it?

Also, if you don't want a [THROAT] that is not between a head and a torso (ie, attached to the forehead, or something), you need to define it that way. (However, you need to extend the spine through the newly-defined neck or else all of your creatures will be paralysed.)

I am uncertain about the spinal structure of a therapod. However, in a humanoid, the spinal structure should look something like this.

Code: [Select]
[BP:UB:upper body][UPPERBODY]
[BP:LB:lower body][LOWERBODY]
[BP:NECK:neck][CON:UB][THROAT]
[BP:SPINE1:cervical spine][CON:NECK][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
[BP:SPINE2:thoracic spine][CON:UB][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
[BP:SPINE3:lumbar spine][CON:LB][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
[BP:SPINE4:pelvic spine][CON:LB][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
Of course that's assuming that we go with the convention of defining the torso first - is there any particular requirement to define the torso first and not start from the head?

Also, what I'd like to see is being able to have multiple attach points to further define how something is connected. If the cervical spine is in the neck, I should be able to specify that it connects to the brain as well as the thoracic spine, and that the thoracic spine is in the upper body and connects to the cervical and lumbar spines.

... I'm a bit nitpicky.
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GenericOverusedName

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2009, 10:28:01 am »
Like I said, it's very rough. I'm very prone to forget little things like that, too!
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Winterbrass

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2009, 10:35:34 am »
I was an editor for my university's newspaper. That says it all, really.

But yes - here's a question. If I were to define the lumbar spine as connected to the lower body and internal, and connected the pelvic spine to it directly and made it internal as well... the game would consider the pelvic spine within the lumbar spine, would it not?
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Rowanas

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2009, 10:52:15 am »
Nope. Unless you specified that the pelvic spine was within the lumbar spine (I forget how) if you say that the pelvic spine is attached to something else then it should work just fine.
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Winterbrass

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2009, 11:31:02 am »
Quote from: Rowanas on August 18, 2009, 10:52:15 am
Nope. Unless you specified that the pelvic spine was within the lumbar spine (I forget how) if you say that the pelvic spine is attached to something else then it should work just fine.
Like, would this work?

Code: [Select]
[BP:SPINE1:cervical spine][CON:NECK][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
[BP:SPINE2:thoracic spine][CON:UB][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
[BP:SPINE3:lumbar spine][CON:LB][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
[BP:SPINE4:pelvic spine][CON:SPINE3][NERVOUS][INTERNAL][SMALL][SKELETON]
I doubt it would work as I intend it to as connecting SPINE3 to LB with the [INTERNAL] tag makes SPINE3 an internal component of LB. If I connect SPINE4 to SPINE3 and have the [INTERNAL] tag, theoretically SPINE4 would become an internal component of SPINE3. If I define SPINE3 simply as connected to SPINE4, it should be external in relation to LB (as in, SPINE4 connected to SPINE3 and projecting out through the flesh and skin of LB into the air).

If that's not the case, and connected items inherit the depth within the creature of the parent part, then I comprehend why dwarves' joints are the way they are - because connecting a limb to an [INTERNAL] part (the joint) would make the limb exist within the torso of the dwarf.

... this would make wrestling quite awkward.

ETA: But my custom race was able to wrestle with no difficulties, so I'm left in a delightful situation where neither case can actually be accurate. *ponder* Ah well. Once I've had some sleep, I'll rewrite the raws and then post them up.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 12:56:26 pm by Winterbrass »
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Neruz

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2009, 07:02:53 pm »
Possibly there's only internal or external, no 'layers' of internalness?

Also, even more spines to get injured and useless, yay *waves flag*
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Winterbrass

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2009, 04:25:30 pm »
Okay, so, due to RL nonsense interfering, I'm getting to work now. I'm going to run with the suggestion that there's only an implied external tag and an explicit internal tag.
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Sensei

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Re: Dwarven Physiology
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 04:45:16 pm »
Yes, layering is already done in the next release though.
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