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1) Players will turn in their fortress as-is, at no additional penalty

45 (60%)

2) Players will be given a short extension, dependant on how near they are, and how many players are unfinished

27 (36%)

3) Players will be disquallified from scoring

2 (2.7%)

4) Something else (please explain)

1 (1.3%)

Total Members Voted: 75

[Katsuun]

I was gone for two months, give me a break...

And I wasn't that good of a player to begin with.

[Albedo]

I was gone for two months, give me a break...

Ah - things may well have changed since you last played. All good.

It's a tough crowd, but a friendly one. 

The math for ambusher is less demanding, but a bit complex.  The skill has to be near others (not "the highest"), except for military skills.  And no skills that produce anything - which only leaves admin, social, and broker skills, and swimming.  But Ambusher 1, Crossbow 5, Armor 4 - no prob, have some free stuff!

But, as I said - those suggestions are all attached to a huge theoretical "IF" - we'll see what Solifuge says (and what the map looks like) when he returns.

[eerr]

sign me up.

[zooeyglass]

Current list of interest - to help Solifuge on his return:

Competitors:

• abculatter_2
• Neyvn
• nil
• Martin
• Vieto
• Blargityblarg
• Dukit
• Meta
• Toady Two
• Denarca
• Glacial Eidolon
• eerr
• Slogo
• gumball135
• Quatch
• Jim Groovester
• Tykk
• Devin

Judges (Hammerers):

• Barbarossa the Seal God
• ein
• Labs
• zooeyglass
• skaltum
• Katsuun
• Albedo
• Samus1111111
• Arathanar
• Boksi
• (name here)
• Metal Militia

We're doing very nicely for numbers. Not sure how many Solifuge has in mind, and I'm sure more people will be keen. Wondered people's thoughts: do you reckon we take more on this time, given the high rate last round of drop outs?

edit: please let me know if i've missed you off here - this is by no means the definitive list, it's mainly just to help Solifuge when he returns.

edit2: adding names - please pm me if you want to be added...

[Slogo]

I'd be interested in participating as a player

[eerr]

bump

[Arathanar]

Judge. Du wahnt.

[Boksi]

I'll take the last judge spot :3

[(name here)]

sign me up as a judge.

[eerr]

bump, again.

[Albedo]

I am out of town for the week... I will be back somewhere around August 22nd, at which point the challenge will be revealed.

Okay, Sol' should be back soon, if not already - let's take some of the workload off his shoulders.  As he's pro'ly working on the map, let's kill 2 birds with one stone, and finish what he asked...

...come to something of an agreement on your Embark Profile.

If every competitor responds, even just to say "no comment", that will both confirm your interest and make S's life easier.

Martin and Ein have expressed their acceptance of anything, including "Play Now!" - if the others want to avoid something like that* (and/or more delays), then "something of an agreement on your Embark Profile" needs to be achieved, here and now.

(* Some have stated that they want to see the map first - "sand" might change the skill list, etc., but we can still make some progress on this.)


So, there are 2 sub-topics - pls voice your opinion on them both, Supplies and Skills.  However, remember we are heading for an agreement - radical suggestions like "no anvil and +300 wood" isn't heading in that direction. (Feel free to add it as a footnote, but unless we get a clear consensus in favor, it's off the table.)

I tossed out a suggested list - I've cut it back, but let's use it as a starting point.  If you have additions/objections/suggestions/requests, now is the time.

Supplies:

* 1 anvil  ¹
* 2 picks
* 35 food:
** 24 (varied, cost 2/) ²
** 11 turtle
* 69 drink (varied) ³
* 7 each seeds (inc. DC's) ⁴
* 3 fire-safe stones (copper ore) ⁵
* 5 logs⁶
* 3 (cheap) sacks ⁷
* 4 wardogs ⁸
* 2 cats ⁹

• Notes:
• 1 - "No Anvil" would mean that competitors either LOSE if their Autumn caravan brings no anvils, or are forced to resort to savescumming - both are undesired. An embark anvil also allows immediate weapons/armor for this "survival" challenge. (But, if there's a clear consensus in favor, we can dump it...)
• 2 - Fish more than meat, for the bones.  Maximizing barrels.  Note - no Plump Helmets are (currently) included in this mix, as they cost 4/. 
• 3 - All 4 types, maximizing barrels, maybe 21, 16, 16, 16.
• 2/3 - 30 food & 60 drink is considered "minimum estimate" for one month.
• 4 - Only PH, Swt Pod & Qry Bush can be planted in Spring - that's 21 tiles of farmplots (but only 7 w/o processing).  The CW & PT can be added in Summer.  We could bump PH's to start. (Not every player will want DC's on embark, but it's 1 more free bag. Maybe reduce to 4 DC's?)
• 5 - No axe in this mix, so this is for guaranteed immediate DIY wood cutting/weapons/etc. (And/or we could go with another metal from ore or bars - see below.)
• 6 - With wagon, enough for smelting/forging 1 axe, plus 5 beds and a bucket.
• 7 - For plant gathering - needed? desired? (Or can go with cheap "leather", and you can DIY bags or armor as prefered.)
• 8 - If "dogs" instead of wardogs, this would save 11/animal.  This is a "survival" challenge, so it's your call (and/or we can mix & match trained and untrained - a few players may want one or more hunting dogs.)
• 9 - In a 5(?)-year survival challenge, some players might find cat-breeding beneficial.  Or slaughter one immediately for the 1 leather and 3-stack of bones. It won't go to waste, I'm sure. (And if I were playing, I'd strongly request "No cat lovers" for my starting 7!)

The above mix (plus 7 dwarfs each with 5/5 skills) leaves 69 points (plus a few dozen more from non-maxed skills, possibly as much as 150 total) for misc. small requests - a single competitor is far more likely to get a request for 10 more PH seeds (10 pts) than for a pig iron + iron bar (50 pts each).


Note that there is no axe. (Those who suggested both an anvil and axe, and a season of food, plus full skills for their 7, will have to show me how to do that w/o 3rd party utilities.)   If the 4 wardogs, 2 cats, stone, wood, bags, and 1 pick were removed, and no additional skills added below - that would still leave us about 80 pts short.  So unless a majority agree to lose the anvil, it's "no axe", sorry.  (Altho' it look like we could easily manipulate the starting skills for a free crossbow & bolts (and suit of leather armor) w/ the Leader, and still be within the target area for everyone's skill preference.)

Here are some DIY options, for your convenience:
Bronze bars: 25/
Iron/Pig Iron bars: 50/
(Steel bars: 150/)
Copper Ore: 6/
Cassiterite: 6/
Iron Ore: 24/
Flux: 6/
Charcoal: 10/

Other options are up to you...

Small tweaks, like taking more Sweet Pod seeds and less Pig Tail seeds, are very minor, and offer more harm than help to some - as judges, we'd rather see everyone get what they feel they "need" rather than every last toy they might think they "want". 

Skills...

This will be more of a challenge, to find an "agreement".  Again, think of what you need, rather than everything you might want; rather than asking for exactly what you like to take, decide if you can live with the suggested mix, or if there are "dealbreakers" involved.

One point of difference seems to revolve around metal-bashing skills, and, if included, which ones to pair them with.  Most everyone will have a different idea of "optimized" - this most likely will NOT be "optimized" for anyone.  It will have to be "good enough" - approach it with that in mind.

1) Miner (dedicated) (or Miner/Wrestler)
2) Mason (dedicated) (or Mason/Axedwarf)
3) Leader (Appraise 1, JoI 1, Architect 1, Ambush 1, Wrestle 2, Axe 2, Crossbow 2)
4) Grower/Weaponsmith
5) Cook/Brewer
6) Mechanic/Armorsmith
7) Craft (tbd)/Craft (tbd)

If (most) everyone agrees on a second skill for the miner or mason, we can certainly go there.  This could include a military skill, perhaps wrestling for the miner, and axe-dwarf for the mason. (But if you're like me, my miner and mason are pretty much busy full time in those professions.)  A skill from 0-5 costs embark 35 pts, which would add to the above supplies list if not used here.

The "craft (tbd)" slots may depend on the map (for instance, if sand then glass), or a clear consensus.  Voice maybe 3 skills you'd like to see mixed in this dwarf (in order of preference?), and we'll see if we can't find common ground.

Remember - Look for "dealbreakers", not your personal optimization.  If the competitors don not reach an agreement, we currently have a 2:1:1:1:1:1:1:1(& etc) vote for "Play Now!".  You decide if "good enough" is better than that.

[Slogo]

I'm not a huge fan of taking the wardogs over dogs. I'd rather 6 dogs than 6 wardogs and train up a few of them right away.

4 DCs would be fine and 7 PH is more than enough for me. If anything I'd rather 4 PH seeds and then just have 3 more actual plump helmets to get the seeds that way.

Overall it looks good enough to me though. Possibly change craft/craft to miner/craft as we have a limited amount of time to do as much construction as we can.

EDIT: To clarify: 'good enough' means I will generally accept this build or any build close to it.

[Albedo]

Thanks, that's solid input.

11 PH's could easily be added w/ remaining points. 

Likewise 2 wardogs and 4 dogs - easy shift (assuming any players want to start w/ wardogs.)

(Will add note highlighting lack of PH's - thanks. Did that intentionally - tried to minimize assumptions.)

[nil]

Re: Items

Looks pretty good to me, but two points.  First, if you only have one miner, I see no reason to bring two picks.  I'd rather toss on another piece or two of copper ore and use the surplus points to boost food or drinks (turtles, most likely).  Or, alternatively, an ax.  Second, I'd like to see 1-3 logs replaced with bituminous coal. 

Also, what are the sacks for? 

2 wardogs and 4 dogs is good.

Re: Skills

I agree with 1-4.  My only issue is that 6 seems sort of cumbersome; unless you're building tons of traps what is a mechanic/armorer is going to spend most of his time hauling or idling.  I'd go with a mechanic/cook and an armorer/brewer instead.  This is also more mood friendly--for this I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad one but it's something.

[Vieto]

I'm ok with the suggested Embark group/items. As long as I have something to smith an axe with, be it bronze, iron, or steel, I'm ok with it.