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Author Topic: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.  (Read 6659 times)

Ampersand

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In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« on: August 16, 2009, 06:31:54 pm »

   The most pretentious of the Final Fantasy series. Never before has so much effort been put into a storyline that utterly fails to be memorable at all. This post will not be spoiler tagged, not that the spoilers are interesting anyway.



   So, anyway, my experience with Final Fantasy 12 began a little less than three years ago when I first acquired it. I didn't play much, mostly due to personal time restraints that required me to do constructive things like graduate high school. Being the responsible young adult I was, I set aside FF12 for the sake of my education. I don't remember much from my initial play through of the first early portions of the game, which may be why I came back to it later. A few months later, once I had finally left high school, and had a summer free to fill with mindless timewasting while I waited for college classes to start, I turned my attention back to the Playstation 2 sitting in my room, with the Final Fantasy 12 box sitting on top of it.

   Thus began Ampersands steady decline into madness.



   Before I even begin to discuss the torturous mindfuck that is the combat system, I feel I have to begin with the utterly inane story, which strangely enough for a Final Fantasy game, offers very little in terms of characterization. Every character, from the Androgynous Main Character Vaan, to the scantily clad bunny girl Fran, work very hard to make you care about them, and utterly fail at it.

   AMC Vaan was apparently orphaned in the la-- Wait, before I even get to that, there's the whole tutorial mission before the real game starts. Here, you start playing as Vaan's older brother, Reks, a soldier in some army or another attacking an occupying enemy force. You know who would have made an interesting main character? Reks. But you don't get to play as Reks, because he is apparently, but not really, betrayed by his Captain, whom he thinks killed their king. It was actually his Captains evil twin brother, of course, which is an entirely unpredictable and total original idea.

   So, Vaan and his brother were orphaned in that war, Reks was apparently injured and brain damaged, and after living in a vegetative state for a while, died. Vaan then went to live with his best friend and the Androgynous Female Main Character, Penelo. Penelo is less interesting than Vaan, which is really saying something. They're little more than street thieves, or so you think, from how they steal. But in actuality, they both apprently have actual jobs helping out at a shop, which just makes the opening scene where Vaan steals something from a guard seem petty and stupid.

   Since Final Fantasy 12 takes place in the same universe as Final Fantasy Tactics, it includes all of the races therein. A race of all or mostly female half naked bunnygirls, for example, and the bizzare... Dog... Things. I don't even know. Anyway, the shop that they work at is owned by one named Migelo. This game has voice acting. Every single spoken line delivered by Migelo is unbearable, due to how they decided his races voice should sound, high pitched slobbering, with severe nasal congestive issues. When they try to make him seem witty in one scene where he bribes from gate guards with alcohol to not beat Vaan just sounds embarrasing.

   Now, the plot of the story goes... Well... The city state you're in is being occupied by a huge sprawling empire, which is totally original. Basically, your ragtag group of misfits are the only people in the country fit to free it from the Evil Empire's clutches, which again, is totally original. Did I mention one of the characters is a tomboy princess who wears too little armor to adequately protect her breasts, and fights in a miniskirt? Totally. Original.

   But that's not really the plot, is it? It's just kind of the basic outline of the story, right? Well, since your Androgynous Main Character and his Not-Girlfriend Penelo are merely accesories to the story that revolves mostly around the Princess and the Not-Traitor Captain, It really starts to feel like it doesn't really matter if you're there or not; the adults could probably drop both Vaan and Penelo off somewhere and continue the adventure with out them at all. To make matters worse, since the game feels like an excersize in World Building, all of the important names and places and things sound completely alien. For example, when you find the friendly enemy prince, his suggestion as to what you should do with the ancient powerful artifact you have is to take to to the Gran Keltias. What is the Gran Keltias, and why should you care? I don't know, because it's never explained. Even after you find him, all you really know is that he's a Magical Old Person. Before it is suggested that you take it to him, he is never mentioned. He comes entirely out of the blue, like an afterthought with no real consequence on the story other than to put another stop on the way from point A to point B.

   Some may say that the story would be more sensical if I had played Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Advance. Screw that; a story should be self contained and comprehensible. Why do you think that every single Discworld Novel takes the time to explain that the world is on the back of a giant turtle in the opening chapter? The Author must assume that every book is the first one a person is going to read, because for all he knows, it is.

   Basically, the whole game feels like this; a cobbled together effort at worldbuilding that fails to make any sense when strung together.



   But all of that can be overlooked for the sake of the gameplay, right? Sure, it could be if not for the fact that the gameplay amounts to little more than the time between you watching CG movies and stoyline sequences, but I digress.

   The combat is boring. It's worse than boring. Basically, you program your characters to do what you want them to do in given situations, and then run at an enemy. Their timer bars fill up, and when it's full, they attack. However, there's an option in the game menu system that allows you to speed up or slow down the rate at which these timer bars fill. Since all combat takes place in real time on the map without going into the traditional combat arena, it should be obvious why this is full of exploit fun; if you slow down how fast the meter fills even for the enemies, and the meter must fill every time magic is cast, and your running speed isn't slowed down when you set the speed to low, you can breeze through areas that are far above your level and collect items that you have no business owning at an early level without taking a single hit (here's looking at you Zodiac Spear).

   That's really all the combat is, programming the characters to do stuff like cast cure or revive on the fallen, and use ranged attacks on flying creatures. They'll do everything without your input. When you get into combat, you can easily set the controller down and do something else during the sequences that ARE SUPPOSED TO BE EXCITING.

   Ohh, you might say, but what about quickenings? Those require split second reflexes to pull off and a lot of user input. While this is true, it overlooks something important, which is that there is absolutely no reason to ever use them. They don't actually do much more damage in the time it takes to use them effectively than you could do just by attacking. Sometimes, they do less. But it does lead into another point I want to make. All the characters are apparently capable of unleashing these huge, massive, earth shattering metaphysical powers, some of which look like they could easily level entire cities, entire combinations of them, and no one ever mentions it. When you get your first one for Vaan, around the time he is basically a level 2 street urchin that can just manage to kill a wolf, he can somehow unleash a massive pillar of fire, and this isn't strange.

   Remember in Final Fantasy Six, when Edgar and Locke first see Terra use magic in combat, and the combat pauses while they totally flip out at how awesome it is? Yeah. That was a good game.

 I really can't get over how nonsensical Quickenings are. Not only are they relatively weak, compared to just buying a slightly better weapon, but even after you pull off a massive combination, there's a possibility that one of the elements used in it happens to be the kind that the enemy is either immune to or healed by, negating a huge amount of the potential damage. Oh, and it gets worse. All these levels you are gaining, and weapons you are obtaining, are completely irrevelant, because the damage dealt by guns, just like in real life, is not dependant on the skill of the user. By the way, they never miss. By the way, they ignore armor. It is concieveable that you could beat the game at an extremely low level if you manage to get the best guns in the game. And yes, this has been done.

   You can bend the universe to your will and create huge combinations of massive earth shattering magical attacks, but in the end, you end up doing far more damage if you just grab a damn gun.



And in the end, it turns out that the bad guy isn't -really- evil, he's just being controlled by... A monster. Just, a monster. Totally. Original.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 03:07:21 am by Ampersand »
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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2009, 07:01:16 pm »

Quote
Final Fantasy 12 takes place in the same universe as Final Fantasy Tactics

 DAMMMNNNN YOUUUUUU SQUARE ENIX!
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ein

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2009, 08:34:00 pm »

I am at a loss for words.
Not because I can't think of anything to say, but because I'm laughing too damn hard.

Chutney

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2009, 09:25:00 pm »

I thought that the idea of not being the main characters was clever and very well done. It's better than Vaan and Penelo saving the world and leading a party of seasoned warriors twice as old as them as if they're the most respected heroes of the era. At least there wasn't any 'chosen one' bullshit.

The combat system was also very refreshing from the normal Final Fantasy turn-based bullcrap. Sure, they made some mistakes with allowing you to set the speed that bars fill up. There were some other problems with it (what final fantasy game/jrpg DOESN'T have large, flashy, earth destroying spells that do negligible damage,anyways) I guess they have to get everything perfect the first time they try to move away from their standard formula. And really, who cares if you can auto-attack. A lot of games allow you to set your party to auto-attack.

It's weird that you find it to be so bad, considering (from what I've seen) it's widely regarded as one of the best of the series (of course, diehard Final Fantasy fans hate it because it strays so far from the formula Squenix set up, so I'm guessing you're a diehard FF fan)
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Ampersand

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 09:54:37 pm »

Actually no. I just legitimately dislike everything about it. I dislike the stand in a line and take turns stabbing each other style of the previous games, but at least it requires some user input. My complaint about the quickening is not that they are huge earth shattering attacks, but that the are completely out of context.

Edit: Let me explain what I mean b 'Out of context'. Toady One has talked about this a couple times when he discusses why Dwarfs are the way they are, or Goblins are the way they are, etc. If you have a story that has a dwarf in it, but the dwarf is not a short bearded humanoid of some sort, you would not be able to accept it without explanation.

In Final Fantasy Twelve, there is absolutely no reason for me to think that a level two street urchin 17 year old homeless kid can summon up the powers of elemental fire in the form of a huge spiraling pillar at will. The problem comes when, if we were to accept that it's possible for a level two street urchin to do this, we wonder why people aren't pulling off these insanely flashy magical powers all the time. Why aren't soldiers using these things in battle? Why can only the story's main characters use them? WHY DO WE HAVE TO BE LICENSED TO WEAR SHOES?

Also, it's not the first time they've moved away from the norm. Square Soft did Final Fantasy Tactics, after all. In fact let me list all of the RPG games that Square or Enix did that had combat systems that were different from the Stand In Line/Take Turns Attacking style, that also happen to be better than FF12's system.

The Secret of Mana series.
Bahamut Lagoon
Final Fantasy Tactics
The Bouncer
The Star Ocean series
Kingdom Hearts series
The Valkyrie Profile Series (Strictly speaking, this is still Stand in Line/Take Turns Attacking, but it's a variant that's just interesting enough to count. The most recent addition is a tactics game, though)

I'm sure that there are others that I am missing. The point is this is FAR from the first time they've strayed from their typical style.

I do have to ask though: Have you ever played it?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 10:56:27 pm by Ampersand »
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commondragon

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 03:55:08 am »

Quote
Final Fantasy 12 takes place in the same universe as Final Fantasy Tactics

 DAMMMNNNN YOUUUUUU SQUARE ENIX!
Wait wait...

He means final fantasy tactics ADVANCED.  you know, the bad one.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 03:57:01 am by commondragon »
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Duke 2.0

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 04:05:25 am »

Quote
Final Fantasy 12 takes place in the same universe as Final Fantasy Tactics

 DAMMMNNNN YOUUUUUU SQUARE ENIX!
Wait wait...

He means final fantasy tactics ADVANCED.  you know, the bad one.
I still have to play that.

 Wait, the bad one? I might believe this if you are not a die hard disgaea fan. Otherwise I'll have to acquire the game and form my own opinion.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 04:31:20 am »

I don't mean to totally bash your opinion Chutney, but your logic, to me, seems so flawed as to need pointing out.

Quote
I thought that the idea of not being the main characters was clever and very well done. It's better than Vaan and Penelo saving the world and leading a party of seasoned warriors twice as old as them as if they're the most respected heroes of the era. At least there wasn't any 'chosen one' bullshit.

What you're basically saying is "Oh, the story is bad, yes, but it's not as bad as it could have been, and therefore that's a redeeming value!".

I can understand giving the benefit of the doubt, but when something does wrong, especially so egregiously, you should give them shit about it, and let them know. Don't make these kinds of excuses.

Quote
The combat system was also very refreshing from the normal Final Fantasy turn-based bullcrap. Sure, they made some mistakes with allowing you to set the speed that bars fill up. There were some other problems with it (what final fantasy game/jrpg DOESN'T have large, flashy, earth destroying spells that do negligible damage,anyways) I guess they have to get everything perfect the first time they try to move away from their standard formula. And really, who cares if you can auto-attack. A lot of games allow you to set your party to auto-attack.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say 'refreshing' in the first sentence. FFXII's gameplay is basically a single player MMORPG. There's nothing new or interesting about it, evidenced by the fact that online games have been doing it for roughly 10 years now! So what you're saying is "This is new, and therefore interesting, even though it's more stale than the previous system!".

Of course, that's not the highlight of this particular statement of yours, as the much MUCH more troubling assumption that because other games do things wrong, it's alright for this game to do them wrong as well is... is...

I'll just say that that's fallacious and move on.

Quote
It's weird that you find it to be so bad, considering (from what I've seen) it's widely regarded as one of the best of the series (of course, diehard Final Fantasy fans hate it because it strays so far from the formula Squenix set up, so I'm guessing you're a diehard FF fan)

It's this statement that makes me doubt you've actually played the game. I don't mean to be hostile with this, but the fact that your opinion is apparently weighted by other people's opinions is the exact opposite of having an objective viewpoint on matters and, in a way, discredits you.

Also, that you apparently guess that Mr. Ampersand is biased due to him being a "Diehard FF fan" is an insult that a lot of people wouldn't let slide, just to let you know.
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Ampersand

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 06:09:07 am »

I was going to say something similar Josh, but I disagree with you on some of your Analysis.

First, you fail to point out that there IS in fact Chosen One bullshit in this story in the form of the Princess, and that Vaan does ends up leading a party of seasoned warriors as he usually comes out on top in terms of level simply because in terms of stat advancement, he end up with the highest stats at a given level.

Second, the point against him should be that Squeenix already has a history with a variety of different combat systems. Sure, the combat system was 'different' from previous Final Fantasy games, but that has no bearing on whether or not it's 'good'. Both Square And Enix have made better systems, as I have already pointed out.

You are perfectly correct on his ad hominem though.

Edited for Grammar Fail. Probably should think about sleeping.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 06:19:52 am by Ampersand »
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JoshuaFH

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2009, 06:16:01 am »

To each his own, I guess. I've personally only played through 1/3 or 1/2 of the game, then threw it down in disgust.
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commondragon

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2009, 10:14:09 am »

Quote
Final Fantasy 12 takes place in the same universe as Final Fantasy Tactics

 DAMMMNNNN YOUUUUUU SQUARE ENIX!
Wait wait...

He means final fantasy tactics ADVANCED.  you know, the bad one.
I still have to play that.

 Wait, the bad one? I might believe this if you are not a die hard disgaea fan. Otherwise I'll have to acquire the game and form my own opinion.

Im not a die hard disgaea fan, Im someone who <3 the origional PSX version.  The story is 10x better.  The world of FFT is NOT the same as the world of FFTA.

And ampersand, Vaan comes out on top because it has the problem of every FF game I've played where "MAIN CHARACTER 24/7" comes into play, making the main the highest level char.  you usually end up with ONE party of characters to use because otherwise your main would outclass the others, making you more dependent on them.  Not balancing your characters isnt really a problem unless the plot kicks in and ruins your setup, like in FF8, where you have to be fully balanced or else the game fucks you over.
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Chutney

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2009, 10:43:11 am »

What you're basically saying is "Oh, the story is bad, yes, but it's not as bad as it could have been, and therefore that's a redeeming value!".

I can understand giving the benefit of the doubt, but when something does wrong, especially so egregiously, you should give them shit about it, and let them know. Don't make these kinds of excuses.
Relative to basically every other jrpg that exists, the story is good. It's not so much the story I was saying had redeeming value, but the way they chose to tell it. I really like that you weren't the hero this time.

Quote
I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say 'refreshing' in the first sentence.
Exactly what I said. Compared to normal Final Fantasy gameplay, Twelve had refreshing gameplay.

Quote
FFXII's gameplay is basically a single player MMORPG. There's nothing new or interesting about it, evidenced by the fact that online games have been doing it for roughly 10 years now! So what you're saying is "This is new, and therefore interesting, even though it's more stale than the previous system!".
The old Final Fantasy system was used for about 20 years. It might be 30 now. And by hundreds of other rpgs. I don't see how it's not staler than the 10 year old MMORPG system. And anyways, I was comparing it to the old FF system, and relative to THAT this thing is amazing and new and god just the best damn thing that ever happened!

Quote
Of course, that's not the highlight of this particular statement of yours, as the much MUCH more troubling assumption that because other games do things wrong, it's alright for this game to do them wrong as well is... is...

I'll just say that that's fallacious and move on.
If thats what I said, I'm sorry for communicating my ideas poorly. I meant that because Squenix is finally branching out and attempting something new, you can't expect them to get it perfect the first time. It's basically uncharted territory for them, and you're expecting them to find the treasure without a map.

Quote
It's this statement that makes me doubt you've actually played the game. I don't mean to be hostile with this, but the fact that your opinion is apparently weighted by other people's opinions is the exact opposite of having an objective viewpoint on matters and, in a way, discredits you.
Yea I played the game. I think I got up to the part where you spend 12 hours in some area not even related to the story and then decided I don't like video games enough to play through this anymore.  I didn't even state any opinions of my own. I made an observation based on other people, and stated my conclusion. (1."This man does not like Final Fantasy XII", 2."Many people have regarded Final Fantasy XII as one of the best of the series" 3."The most opposed to the notion that Final Fantasy XII is one of the best of the series are Diehard Final Fantasy Fans" Conclusion: "This man is a Diehard Final Fantasy Fan")

Quote
Also, that you apparently guess that Mr. Ampersand is biased due to him being a "Diehard FF fan" is an insult that a lot of people wouldn't let slide, just to let you know.
Sorry, I didn't realize wondering if somebody was a fan of something was an insult.
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Ampersand

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2009, 11:28:22 am »

You cannot claim that my negative review is excessive because Twelve is a step up from Ten. I am reviewing this game in a vacuum, for all you should care. I am not saying that Final Fantasy 12 is bad for a Final Fantasy game, I'm saying IT'S A BAD GAME. Period. Full stop. End of story.
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Zangi

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2009, 06:37:26 pm »

Also, that you apparently guess that Mr. Ampersand is biased due to him being a "Diehard FF fan" is an insult that a lot of people wouldn't let slide, just to let you know.
Sorry, I didn't realize wondering if somebody was a fan of something was an insult.
Keyword there.  Implying something more then just a normal fan.


Yea, the story does suck.  Did you know... Vaan wasn't supposed to be the main character to begin with.  He didn't even exist.  Squenix heads decided to shove Vaan in there to 'relate' to the masses.
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sonerohi

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Re: In which I complain about Final Fantasy 12.
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2009, 07:25:30 pm »

How exactly does a poor, homeless, extremely femenine protaganist relate to the basement-dwellers, with enough money to buy a ps2?
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