The lie about health care that you provided as an example from the supporting side is not one I recall hearing from democratic politicians. I've heard it, but then, I've heard it from just about everyone (except politicians). It is, however, true that they are the usual profit-maximization driven company, and maximizing profits naturally involves reducing expenses. Which in insurance companies involves minimizing payouts to customers. Therefore it will probably be harder to get good insurance for a good price. This is why even insured people can go bankrupt from medical bills.
It is also true that just because one side has lies on it doesn't mean the other side doesn't. However, if the lies from, say, the republicans are more noticed than the other side, then quite clearly those that lie on the republicans are more prominent in their party than those who lie on the democratic side (and by lie I mean spread false information, not stand by).
Good argument! Well, at least for the first part--I'm pretty sure you could do a bit better on the second.
Yes, I quoted a lie that's being spread verbatim by the grassroots Democrats. It is used by Democrats in office, too, just much more subtly. (Listen to some of the speeches, and see if you can find the hidden messages. This one comes across fairly often!) And, it's true, private companies do use a profit-maximization scheme. However, profit maximization does not mean that the product must suffer--the most successful companies make sure the product truly doesn't, else they get bit by word-of-mouth marketing. What happens is the companies will maximize the gain to cost ratio as much as possible. So, if you can provide mediocre health insurance, keep your customers, and make a ton of money, then it's desirable to offer mediocre health insurance. If you make more money the better insurance you provide, then you'll offer better and better insurance. Insurance companies care about their customer because it's financially sound to do so. I won't go further than that--financial realities much more specific give me a headache.
You now claim that because lies are more noticed on the Republican side, the Republicans lie more. That's clearly false. For one, who's noticing the lies? Fact checker, or this topic? If Fact checker, then fine. If any other metric, then it's probably biased. Also, it doesn't mean that the Republicans are lying more, they're just worse at lying. The real experts only need to imply the lies--see the above instance.
Why? Well, I'll let you figure that one out.
Now, the point of my post, the object lesson. Let me point out that there have been about 10 direct statements that basically boil down to "If you don't support the health care reform as proposed, you're an idiot vomiting what you've heard before onto the screen." This is a blatant lie. There are plenty more such statements implied, but I won't bother to point them out--textual analysis takes too long.
Notice that Taniec was bringing legitimate concerns to the table from his own research, but started getting sidetracked by these personal insults. And, of course, whenever he tried to correct people, he was ignored, implied to be an idiot, and his points went unanswered, for the most part. Now he's fighting fire with fire, lying right along with you, and this also makes him an idiot, and a thread derailer, to boot. Both lies.
Shame on everyone who made that work. You especially, Vester--you were on the leading edge of the direct insults, by my count.
But this brings me back around to my point--politics is conducted through lies. Even here, the few voices of reason (Chairman Poo, kinseti, and Wiles among them) simply aren't interesting enough to discuss, so noone bothers to learn anything from them. If there is a reasonable opponent, he's brow-beaten into losing his temper, or lying right along with you. All because lies make better stories than a reasonable discussion.
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Topic: This American Health Debate thing (Read 12768 times)