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[Bricks]

I'm not sure that dwarven ethics should allow any player to just go out and summon whatever demons he needs.  It would, of course, come in adventure mode.  Religion could allow for some minor divine intervention, once that is in, and not fulfilling a high priest's mandate could have...magical consequences.

[Winterbrass]

I think that magic should run the gamut from the standard fireball-casting wizard to the ritual magic which needs crazy levels of preparation.

However, I think that (in a vanilla, unmodded game) what Fortress mode and what Adventure mode has access to should be completely different.

If I want to have my defenses consist of arcane archers shooting magically enchanted crossbows used to fire spells at a target, I should have that ability. Of course, I probably wouldn't be playing a dwarven fortress...

Well, unless... genetics.

Magic should require a certain genetic combination in most humanoid races - don't have it, can't use magic.

This would be a perfect reason to have artificial selection, and when non-magical dwarves notice that they're being selected against, imagine the fun of having a dwarven civil war with mundanes versus priests and wizards!

[Dae]

Could someone write a summary about magic in Slaves to Armok 1 ? I had played with it a little but I'm sure I missed a lot.

For example, you could teleport someone's spine out of their body (which I thought pretty hilarious and madly powerful).
With the new body system, you could have some neat things. Making your liver burst into flame, turning your skin into stone, making you amphibious, cursing someone so that alcohol is a poison for him or his children are born with pointy ears and spider legs. Giving you a mouth on the back of the head, turning your bones into glass.

I would love to picture this as a noble demanding ingredients (and a "partner") to discover new random spells. Then, at times you could use him as a squad, giving him orders ('use this spell on this thing/dwarf/goblin/...');

[Pie]

I've been thinking, and I reckon that the magic system could work like this (in practice)

• Select sphere to use (e.g. Life)
• Select target (e.g. Corpse)
• Select intonation (e.g. Angry)

And a likely result would be the ressurrection of the corpse, probably in an evil way (not conscious). Obviously that would take a particularly skilled wizard to pull off. Each stage would have limitations. Each sphere would have a skill level that you could improve. You may have to read magical books or go through certain experiences in order to access certain spheres (so you might have to fight a magma man before discovering the fire sphere). Initially you wouldn't even have the option of a target, you would just select the sphere and intonation and a fairly random effect would happen somewhere nearby. Then you would gain the ability to select a circular area of effect and this area would gradually shrink until you could select the index finger of the kobold's left hand. Intonation could be a sort of experiment - certain spheres might be better with certain intonation, or might work differently. Anger would tend to lead towards less controlled, more aggressive magic, sadness would tend to be more calm, but still have a destructive tinge and happiness would cause things which make the user happy.

I think also the type of wizard could be important. It could be a little ambiguous, so that you think: "I'll summon a demon to destroy the town with an angry intonation" but because you are a wizard who delights in bloodshed, your anger creates a fluffy bunny demon that just goes around loving everyone. Or that could happen if you use a happy intonation, because you haven't been evil enough up until that point. I think it could help to make the system a little more complex and interesting.

An example of a way in which a player might try to 'crack' the system:

• Select sphere to use = MURDER
• Select target = WALL
• Select intonation = HAPPY

With a friendly wizard. Now obviously you have several contradictions here, what with murder implying killing something, happiness implying not killing something and wall being something which can't be killed. Perhaps the destructive effect of the murder sphere would be lessened by the happy intonation, with an end result of little bits of the wall being chipped off. Perhaps the spheres would have definitions, so murder would be associated with both life and destruction, so that if you apply it to a non-living thing there are still the destructive effects.

[Bricks]

Pie, I like your system.  Not necessarily the idea of having to 'discover' a sphere (though it could be something you can improve by studying various objects/religions/regions), or initially having no target (though I think that the 'accuracy' should vary considerably, so trying to heal a papercut for a new wizard would be a source of extreme frustration, and 'sniping' being near impossible until you are very talented).  You have the Bricks seal of approval.

One problem/curiosity/consideration.  With those three options per spell, how do you ensure specificity as a talented wizard?  Even if you have performed the spell multiple times, the game may not know what effect it should have given only three effects (spheres, target, and intonation).

Perhaps allow a player to choose multiple spheres.  That is assuming that Toady would have some way to moderate the interactions between spheres, which I think he intends.  Another option is to have an implied target - you add an option to indicate what you want to happen.  Things like bleed or break, or a noun to imply what you want something to become, like gold, diamond, or elephant.

[Rowanas]

I disagree. I think mages should have spheres that they can learn, and you can activate and asign them somewhere and they'll just perform a random effect. That way you still know what vaguely could happen, but it's still properly magical. I think specifying down to such details shouldn't happen, because it gives too much control of an uncontrollable thing. Even dwarves shouldn't know exactly what they're doing when they draw on the fire sphere, or the murder sphere. Getting better at magic should give them more spheres for you to pick from, and make their effects stronger, for better or worse.

[Vester]

Maybe the mage is associated with certain spheres by race and culture? For example, to work magic that has to do with smithing, one should be associated with fire, metal, and whatever, making it much easier for a dwarf or goblin as opposed to, say, an elf or human. That doesn't mean that other races can't learn to use those spheres, but it will be harder.

[Neonivek]

Spheres for the most part shouldn't limit what a Mage can learn

When spells/rituals and the like are created the other populations and creatures should take spells according to what is appropriate.

Thus your not likely to find demon Uber magic from an Elven society.

[Silverionmox]

Spheres for the most part shouldn't limit what a Mage can learn

When spells/rituals and the like are created the other populations and creatures should take spells according to what is appropriate.

Thus your not likely to find demon Uber magic from an Elven society.

But assigning spheres is just a way to determine what is appropriate...

[Neonivek]

The Spells obviously have Spheres themselves, that is what determines a lot of what they do

There is just no magic wand waved that says "Elves may only learn Rain sphere Spells", it is that they "Only know rain sphere spells" so your Adventurer may have to go out of his/her way.

The "Uber Demon Spell" was just thinking of "Power". Creatures lacking the magical ability to obtain the greater levels of magic shouldn't generally learn/discover it. So at a certain point your Sorcerer Adventurer is going to have to start to make deals with Demons and creatures of similar mystical might (Such as gods) or make their own.

[Silverionmox]

Well, I hope that we end up with 26 different, partially overlapping magic types, that may or may not be present in a game. Plus invisible hidden quirkiness. I would dislike a Grand Unified Theory of Magic.

[Neonivek]

Well, I hope that we end up with 26 different, partially overlapping magic types, that may or may not be present in a game. Plus invisible hidden quirkiness. I would dislike a Grand Unified Theory of Magic.

Well there are over a hundred spheres

[bjlong]

Well, I hope that we end up with 26 different, partially overlapping magic types, that may or may not be present in a game. Plus invisible hidden quirkiness. I would dislike a Grand Unified Theory of Magic.

The theory would probably be:

You do something, and something completely different happens. AS IF BY MAGIC.

[Silverionmox]

Well, I hope that we end up with 26 different, partially overlapping magic types, that may or may not be present in a game. Plus invisible hidden quirkiness. I would dislike a Grand Unified Theory of Magic.

Well there are over a hundred spheres

I was more thinking along the lines of voodoo, artifact, divine, ritual, geomantic, etc. magic that differ in their philosophy, culture, customs, triggers as well as results, but also in mechanics.

[Rowanas]

Eurgh. Spheres and gods, gods and spheres. All magic should use spheres, but ritual magic should be god fueled through the establishment of temples in your fortress and having lots of religious dwarves.

For instance, say we assign each level of fervency a number from 1 to 5. Dwarves will contribute their fervency "rating" to worship of their particular god. Shrines to a particular god would act like an amplifier, multiplying the worship by 2 or 3 times depending on the grandeur of the temple. Maybe having a special priest for each god (a worship noble assigned if you have dwarves to spare) would further boost the number. This number is then applied to the spheres of the god and takes effect here, there or anywhere in small ways. Little worship of a water sphere god might keep your well filled, while major over-the-top worship could cause a seemingly unrelated flooding of a nearby sea.

Mortal magic (castable) would be exactly as I described above. Difficult, dangerous, and chaotic. Casting chaos sphere magic would be... Fun^tm...