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[Sordid]

Technology opens up the possibility of a myriad of cool gadgets and stuff to play around with. Magic? Okay, so you have NPCs who can throw fireballs... and then what?

And yet you ask precisely for fireball-technology...

No I'm not.

Toady said that he was against throwing fireballs as well, i.e. using magic as brute force technology. There's plenty of material in the various magic threads alone that offers plenty of other possibilities other than using it as a portable cannon.

Does it enhance the potential for player creativity, though?

[Rowanas]

Very much so. You could design fortresses specifically to subtly alter the surrounding area by magic and weaken or strengthen specific civilsations. Kingmaker style DF would be possible and, depending on the person, incredibly fun. Something as simple as setting 5 magi learned in the ways of the water sphere could cause water to pour at ever increasing speeds into a river, which would flow all the way into a sea and flood the seaside nations of your foes. In the Fortress scale (which will soon be only a part of the DF experience) you can have your magi subtly alter the land, maybe turning a couple tiles of land into water at an opportune moment which could potentially drown unlucky goblins and force a rout, or make the fight a little more even for your champions.

Stuff like tht would really enhance the game, but not be overpowered or flashy.

[Starver]

Personally, I say no to magic. Technolgy opens up the possibility of a myriad of cool gadgets and stuff to play around with. Magic? Okay, so you have NPCs who can throw fireballs... and then what? The problem with magic is that it's magic, it doesn't have rules you could use to build stuff.

Compare Pratchettian magic (rules exist, though one is that you can outwit the universe for a short time with the likes of Hex) or the world of the Darksword Trilogy of Wicks and Heisman (there was even an RPG supplement to the trilogy, which had a decent implementation of how much/well the energies of the various flavours of magic could be commanded.

And Clarke's third law/Niven's corollary. It might be called 'magic', it might appear to be magic, but if it has been given a coded basis then there are rules.  Whether the rules are obvious (or even visible at all) to the end-user (at either character or player level) is an open question, of course.  I'm sure it's going to be better than the 'secret' Potter-esque incantation of "Explodio Hamstero!" as the catalyst for various small furry pets to instantly vaporise.

[Pilsu]

Where the hell did the magic talk come from?    Shoo! 

MrWiggles, you gotta wave your hand harder than that if you're seriously trying to get rid of the concept of ventilation. It's absolutely necessary no matter what they respirate, "alien", or not.
The init file allows disabling many things, I wager ventilation could be on the list if it really bothers you that much.

Purring maggots are actually an easily viable organism even without the assumption of neotenous development. When the maggot prepares to pupate and use up all of the protein-filled fluid  that it stores in it's body, dwarves take it and stimulate a defensive mechanism similar to the loss of tail exhibited by many lizards. The purring maggot is then allowed to feed until it reaches pupation, and forced to defend itself over and over, providing a near endless source of thick, rich fluid perfect for making cheese.

Personally I see it as the maggot way of breeding. The milk contains thousands of little vermin that get ingested by a hapless batman which then gets slowly eaten from the inside by growing maggots. Dwarves would recoil in horror of the thought of drinking it raw

It needn't be actual cheese either, just called such for cultural reasons

[Silverionmox]

Technology opens up the possibility of a myriad of cool gadgets and stuff to play around with. Magic? Okay, so you have NPCs who can throw fireballs... and then what?

And yet you ask precisely for fireball-technology...

No I'm not.

For what did you want gunpowder then, if not explosions and more powerful ranged weapons?

Toady said that he was against throwing fireballs as well, i.e. using magic as brute force technology. There's plenty of material in the various magic threads alone that offers plenty of other possibilities other than using it as a portable cannon.

Does it enhance the potential for player creativity, though?

That depends on the implementation. Gunpowder and explosions on the other hand must be the recurrent item on the suggestion forum, so I don't think we'll lose player creativity by making them think outside that box.

[MrWiggles]

MrWiggles, you gotta wave your hand harder than that if you're seriously trying to get rid of the concept of ventilation. It's absolutely necessary no matter what they respirate, "alien", or not.
The init file allows disabling many things, I wager ventilation could be on the list if it really bothers you that much.

I'm not against being able to ventilate. I'm saying that I dont think the dorf would need to do it. They would probably have to for the other top side races that pollute their mighty fortresses.

Why does a none human need solely o2?

[Rowanas]

What the hell? Better grammar/spelling please, or else we can't understand the question.

[Bricks]

I think he meant non-human, o2 being O₂ being dioxygen being oxygen gas.

[Rowanas]

Ah, then that's easy to answer.

THEY DON'T. There are whole threads and painstakingly researched ideas for dwarven biology (yours truly did most of it) relying on them using other substances, but nonetheless, they must take in something and give off something else. It is merely the way that biology works.

[MrWiggles]

I think he meant non-human, o2 being O₂ being dioxygen being oxygen gas.

Yes!

[lucusLoC]

I have not seen this much derailing for a while.

Why does a dorf need only O2? Because it is cosistant with other cretures in the world. Yes there are cretures that do not need O2, because of magic or whatever, but they are viewed as an exception to the rule. I can understand that dorfs could have a higher tollerance to CO2 than a human, just as their tollerance for alcohaul is. i think a consistant "natural order" is important to hold to, and if it is familliar it is eisier to relate to.

[Sordid]

For what did you want gunpowder then, if not explosions and more powerful ranged weapons?

It's not what you have, it's wha use you're able to come up with for it. Yes, given that gunpowder is an explosive, explosions would be its primary use (duh).

That depends on the implementation. Gunpowder and explosions on the other hand must be the recurrent item on the suggestion forum, so I don't think we'll lose player creativity by making them think outside that box.

By putting the magic box over their head? Hardly an inspiring thought.

[zarmazarma]

God damn, use your imagination. You can't see the ceiling, there for, whats stopping you from believe that it is indeed engraved when the floor tile below it is? It's not like you click "engrave floor" simply "smooth" and "engrave". If you're engraving or smoothing a whole tile, which includes 1 ceiling and 1 floor, than you very well could be engraving the ceiling as well.

[Sordid]

That's a good point. On the other hand, multi level rooms? Can't engrave a ceiling that's six meters above your head without a scaffold. But yeah, probably not a big deal. It would still be nice to be able to engrave wall sides individually.

[lordcooper]

God damn, use your imagination. You can't see the ceiling, there for, whats stopping you from believe that it is indeed engraved when the floor tile below it is? It's not like you click "engrave floor" simply "smooth" and "engrave". If you're engraving or smoothing a whole tile, which includes 1 ceiling and 1 floor, than you very well could be engraving the ceiling as well.

But you get no value bonus for the ceiling this way.
I'm a bit anal in certain ways and me NEEDS this.

As for derailing...who likes CARP?