Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nobody1225]

Yep--meteoric iron can be smelted straight into ironbright, or it can be made from nickel (from garnierite) and iron (from iron ore); I typically don't bother with the second but it's a nice bonus to find meteoric iron in the soil and have a good source of strong metal without needing to jump through the coal-and-flux hoops first.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

some thoughts after using the mod some time...

Mirrorsteel is too easy to get by using dwarven caravans for the chromium and molybdenum...  I'm not sure this is _bad_, particularly, but the quality should probably be reduced.

Similarly, even if you have ore for the fancier stuff on the map you can get more supply of it by ordering from caravans. The map doesn't seem to be making a large difference in the metals I use. 

Ironbright...I dunno about Ironbright. My problem is that every time I've had Iron and Nickel on a map I've had Flux too.  So I never make the stuff. Even tiny flux deposits make it obsolete.

The two things you can smelt from laced platinum seem redundant. One is better than the other but takes more laced platnium.  Why bother having both?

Note: All my experience has been on lavaless maps,

[Catts]

Is there any documentation as to the combat effectiveness and values of the new metals?  Short of digging through the raws.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Nope. Dig away.

[LegoLord]

Isrirkadankel is the second best non-HFS metal, I can tell you that.  It's also a bright neon green if you use the included color schem.

Most of the metals have little notes telling about how good they are.

[Nobody1225]

Is there any documentation as to the combat effectiveness and values of the new metals?  Short of digging through the raws.

Official documentation, I guess not, but here are my notes from having already dredged the raws:

• HFS is the best, of course.
• Kordamakest (Mirrorsteel, Coal, and Silvershine) is the second best, at 240% weapon, 260% armor.
• Isrirkadankel (Silvershine, Chromium, Steel, Cobalt, Erythronium (Iron made from Magnetite), Carbon Fiber) is next best, at 230% weapon 250% armor.  It also has the most awesome dwarven name: "Iz-rurrk-uh-dahnk-el".  Musical and guttural all at once.
• Iridiosmium/Gorroth-Kel follows at 210% weapon, 245% armor.  You need laced platinum and coal (even with magma).
• Mirrorsteel: 190%/200%, needs steel, chromium, molybdenum, nickel, and coal.  I haven't had nearly as much luck as TheDeadlyShoe in getting my parent civilization to even have Chromium, much less sell it to me.  Might be the fact that I stop WorldGen history before they can spread too far.
• Osmiridium, also requiring laced platinum and coal, is 165% weapon 190% armor.
• Patterned Steel/Wootz steel: 170%/130% weapon/armor, made by the same process as steel except you need to start with magnetite specifically, use flux all the way, and use a large green glass gem in the final step in addition to flux.
• Silversteel 140%/140% weapon/armor: Steel, Silvershine (or Kelshinral or Lamshinral), Coal.
• Steel 130%/130% weapon/armor: Iron, Flux, Coal, just like always.
• Ironbright 120%/120%: Iron and Nickel, or just smelt a meteorite somewhere.  I usually save the nickel for furniture or blueshine and focus on turning the iron into superior steels, but if I find a meteorite I'm not going to say 'no' to a good battle-metal that didn't require extra coke from me (I always play with magma).
• Amathdagi 110%/120%: Aluminum, Tin, and Copper.  Better than bronze, and lighter-weight.
• Iron 100%/100%: In Wonderment, there is no non-brittle iron without using coal/coke.  Even with magma, you must have coal/coke.
• Bronze 90%/105%: better armor than iron, inferior weaponry.  Sort of the reverse of iron: even without magma, you don't need coal or coke to make bronze--except for smelting the cassiterite, stannite, or copper ores to get the copper and tin you make it with.
• Copper 66%/66%
• Lead 60% weapon, not available for armor: well, why not?  You hit someone with a lead hammer, it'll sting.
• Silver 45%/40%

[Catts]

Been digging through the raws trying to get everything sorted out, but now I'm trying to smelt Gold with Cinnabar and Brimstone (both of which I have in obscene quantities) and it's not letting me.  I only get the option for Gold0 (no cinnabar or brimstone).  Any ideas as to what the issue is?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

You need to use Blocks. The files note this was done to make them easier to import. I'm not sure about that but w/e. 

[Fedor]

Catts:  Please let us know if your question wasn't answered (I think it was, but I want to make sure).

Lack of documentation:  Yep, docs need and will get attention.  Suggestions welcome.  I'd also say "contributions welcome", but things will change in the next release (which, as mentioned, won't be until the next version of DF).

Those of you who've looked through the raws:  Do you find the notes I've written helpful?  Would you like me to add anything else or cut down anywhere?

Nobody1225:  Thanks for the list!  A point not covered is the varying labor requirements to make metals:  iron and steel are labor-intensive, athamadagi and patterned (wootz) steel are highly labor-intensive, but bronze and meteoric iron can be made quickly and easily ... with the right ores.

Blocks required for gold amalgamation:  blocks are also requested to increase the labor required.  Gold amalgamation is time-consuming.  The import thing was because I got tired of being part of civs that could trade blocks of X, but not raw ore of X.  Was really frustrating.

some thoughts after using the mod some time...

Mirrorsteel is too easy to get by using dwarven caravans for the chromium and molybdenum...  I'm not sure this is _bad_, particularly, but the quality should probably be reduced.

Similarly, even if you have ore for the fancier stuff on the map you can get more supply of it by ordering from caravans. The map doesn't seem to be making a large difference in the metals I use. 

Ironbright...I dunno about Ironbright. My problem is that every time I've had Iron and Nickel on a map I've had Flux too.  So I never make the stuff. Even tiny flux deposits make it obsolete.

The two things you can smelt from laced platinum seem redundant. One is better than the other but takes more laced platnium.  Why bother having both?

Note: All my experience has been on lavaless maps,

I welcome more thoughts about the "mirrorsteel too easy to make using imported rares" thing from anyone with an opinion.  This is an open item.

Ironbright:  Is capable of being the best battle-metal available on certain maps.  Players who choose sites based on underground resources aren't ever likely to appreciate meteoric iron except as a secondary source of nickel, but someone who picks a site by, say, a huge river with no metals to speak of will be grateful for the stuff.  If some future version of DF allows ores to (correctly) appear in soil, it's going to be more important.

I provisionally agree about the two laced platinum metals.  One is sufficient.

[slink]

Notes in the raws are always helpful.

I wanted to comment on the Soils are Fun issue.  The ALLUVIAL problem can be solved by replacing ALLUVIAL with SOIL in all entries, including the platinum entry which is from vanilla DF and not an addition from Soils are Fun.  I have done this and it works fine.

I found your work-around using Alliuvium to be a little confusing in that the entry appears to be recursive.  That is, veins of Alluvium appear to contain veins of Alluvium.  Since I did what I described in the paragraph above, I did not test it, but it looked odd to me.

I want to thank you for working out the bloomery route to iron.  I had read up on it but not done anything with the information.  I am using it, and the meteoric iron, in my game now. 

[Lancensis]

I provisionally agree about the two laced platinum metals.  One is sufficient.

In the next version, I believe it's possible to use extracts in reactions, so perhaps the "impurities" could be extracted from platinum nuggets with Aqua Regia? If you don't know, it's a mix of sulphuric and nitric acid that will dissolve all but about 3 or 4 metals- osmium and iridium being two of them and platinum not being one. Therefore when platinum is dissolved completely in the solution, the osmium/irridium is left behind.

Might add a nice bit of decision-making to the game, which I think vanilla lacks a bit. You can have your pretty but useless metal, or, your immensely heavy, damn-near indestructable metal.

I know Aqua Regia was available to the ancients, but I'm having a bit of trouble trying to find out how they produced nitric acid for it. If you like the idea, Fedor, I could do a bit more research?

[Catts]

Not really 100%.  You're saying I need Gold ores, Brimstone blocks and Cinnabar blocks for the reaction?

[Lancensis]

Not really 100%.  You're saying I need Gold ores, Brimstone blocks and Cinnabar blocks for the reaction?

For the third, and most effecient reaction, yes.
For the second, you need gold ore and a block..I think it's Brimstone
For the first, and least effecient, you just need gold ore

[Fedor]

I know Aqua Regia was available to the ancients, but I'm having a bit of trouble trying to find out how they produced nitric acid for it. If you like the idea, Fedor, I could do a bit more research?

Yes, please.  This could be very good.

[Lancensis]

Sure. I've got most of the notes I need. I'll write it up some time tommorrow. At the moment I'm too sick of trying to remember the difference between natrum, and sal nitrum and all that. It looks like the Dwarves are entirely capable of it, though, without even really needing to add more than a few minerals.