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[Magnnus]

I second the walking skill, that way we can rival the carp with our amazing strengh from 24/7 walking!

On a serious note: hauling skill will definatly help to give peasants some more value.

[ November 24, 2007: Message edited by: Magnnus ]

[SquashMonster]

I think Porter is a better term than Teamster, Lifter or Hauler.

I agree that such a skill is needed.  In addition to, as already suggested, increasing how much a dwarf can carry at once, I think that, while hauling large objects, turning corners and moving through small corridors should slow dwarves down.  Having a high hauling skill should decrease how much these conditions slow the dwarf down.

Finally, a porter who gets a strange mood should walk off the edge of the map.  Eventually they will come back carrying an artifact.  Said artifact can be anything, but should lean towards heaviness.  They could demand a large portion of food before they leave, so they have a chance of snapping like all the other dwarves.

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Kholint:
<STRONG>There's a reason why real life hauling jobs are paid minimum wage.</STRONG>

They aren't, actually.  I have a friend who is getting paid $40 an hour for a long-term job that is basically hauling.  Like with any job, there's high and low end work.

quote:Originally posted by Align:
<STRONG>Or it could take ages to level.
Mining should probably be nerfed too, it's one of the very few professions that can reach Legendary without fey mood in less than a year.</STRONG>

I disagree.  Mining is more central to dwarf life than any other job, and it makes sense to me that they would master it faster and produce many more legendary miners than they do with any other skill.  Mining is in their blood; dwarves, as a race, are basically legendary miners.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Dwarves are, rather, legendary stoneworkers - stoneworking includes mining, masonry, crafting, and engraving.

It is my opinion that a mason seeking to make, say, a door, must go and hew that door out of stone, instead of using a pre-mined rock (since those are usually small rocks usable for blocks and crafts only). Maybe designate a special "masonry" zone specially for mason use?

[Kholint]

Aquillon- your friend may get alright pay for it, but I still wouldn't call hauling a skill.
I carry shopping bags for my mum, but I wouldn't call myself a novice/dabbling hauler. =P
Yeah, it takes strength and endurance to be good at carrying things around, and for some things you need a bit of care so as to not drop or damage it- but that still doesn't bring it anywhere near skill status.

Skills are things that principally use your brain- whether that's a purely intellectual skill such as mathematics, or being good with your hands, like playing the guitar. There's honestly not that much to hauling other than "pick up, move, drop"- it's not something you need an education for, I'm sure you'll agree.
Especially in a dwarven environment, where most of the hauling is rocks, wood and food, not intricate science equipment or grand pianos.

Hauling isn't a skill.

[Align]

If you look up you'll see someone mentioning a guy handling a piano. That requires more than strength.

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by Align:
<STRONG>If you look up you'll see someone mentioning a guy handling a piano. That requires more than strength.</STRONG>

Exactly. No human-size (or dwarf-size) person, however strong, could handle such a large object without breaking it unless they possess special equipment and the skill to use such equipment. Even if you have the sheer strength to lift something, that does not mean you're handling it in the right way to prevent shear stresses from breaking it just from gravity on the wrong parts. Yes, even if it's something far simpler than a piano--you'd be surprised.

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by Kholint:
<STRONG>
Skills are things that principally use your brain- whether that's a purely intellectual skill such as mathematics, or being good with your hands, like playing the guitar. There's honestly not that much to hauling other than "pick up, move, drop"- it's not something you need an education for, I'm sure you'll agree.
</STRONG>

In that sense, swimming needs to go too, there's absolutely no intellectual activity involved in swimming. Neither is there much of an intellectual challenge to swing an axe in combat, so that has to go. And masonry is just "pick up, move, put down" too...

You need to consider that lifting is very much about technique, ask any weight lifter. They train for years to be able to lift those weights, and strength isn't half of it. Consider also that they don't need to carry the weights around. They absolutely don't need to carry large, awkwardly shaped weights down a narrow spiral staircase. And definitely not fragile, large, awkwardly shaped weights... which are the property of a master stonecarver who's going to tantrum so much if you even chip it.

I say hauling is definitely a skill, something you notice quite easily the first time you try to carry something that's larger than you, or heavier than you, or both. Like a log.

[ November 26, 2007: Message edited by: mickel ]

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by Kholint:
<STRONG>Hauling isn't a skill.</STRONG>

You try hauling a stone block 5 feet in each direction and see where it gets you.
(Stones, are, apparently pretty large, you can make some pretty large stuctures with them).

Maybe they aren't 5x5x5.  Lets go with a moderate 2x2x1.  You ever carry a rock that large?  How about a 1x1x1 rock?  Those things are HEAVY.

Try building a stone wall sometime.

[SquashMonster]

For another good example of where hauling needs skill, try moving a couch through a small hallway.  Especially one that bends.  I know my parents can't do it without my help, and it's not because I possess a great deal of upper body strength (I don't.).

I hate to be attention-grubbing, but did anyone like the occupation name of Porters?  How about the idea of strange-mood Porters walking off the map and coming back later with a heavy artifact?

[Ma]

quote:Originally posted by Mylon:
<STRONG>All of my haulers are given the pump operator labor.  [...]  When they're idle and not hauling stuff, they're pumping iron to raise their stats.</STRONG>

It reminds me of the Shadoks. I don't know if these are known outside France, so here is a sample for you all :

   

Why make it simple if you can make it intricated ?

To get back on the topic, I will consider asking some peasant dwarves to pump, alongside those who mine and those who polish the galeries and rooms, prior to being drafted in the military. Thanks for the idea.

[ November 27, 2007: Message edited by: Maître Smaug Capello ]

[Seshat]

quote:
That being said, would there would be a significant benefit with such a skill until multiple item hauling is added?

I currently have ten specialist food haulers, failing to keep up with two cooks, two brewers, one miller, one butcher, one fishcleaner and one farming-workshop-dwarf.

There is a food stockpile three steps away from the kitchens and stills, and the furthest they have to haul things is eighteen steps from the quern to a storage room.

I would LOVE to see hauling improved.