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[blah28722]

I started playing DF from 40d, so I've missed out on all this "2D" jazz. Apparently, it was quite different? (I don't mean the lack of a dimension).

Apparently the 2D version had more in some aspects, such as more nobles and equipment for humanoid creatures (batmen riding bats and using blowguns).

Does anyone know more about 2D? Can you share your experiences?

[Nexii Malthus]

Well I'm sure some of it may return very soon, batmen riding bats and using blowguns that is.

[buman]

There was quite a bit more underground diversity. You could have ambushes out of wells, the underground river, the chasm, or the lava. The river overflowed at least once a year and would grow trees on its banks. You needed to irrigate your soil before you could plant on it.

off the top of my head.

Oh ya, and if you had a pumping mistake instead of flooding your local construction, you flooded all the usable space in the map.

[MoonCabbage]

yeah the map was also pretty much the same regardless of location. i miss the magma rivers and definitely the endless raids from the chasm and river. the nobles didn't do anything though, that i don't want to come back. the dungeon master was the only noble worth anything.

overall though it had a primitive charm. Elephants were always a problem though, and to a certain degree the dwarves themselves acted more insane.

[Sizik]

Read this.

[Balathustrius]

The newer versions are better in just about every way, except that it's much harder to find all the features that you were guaranteed in the 2d version.  I miss always having a cave river, chasm, magma, sand, tons of ore, and HFS.

[Karlito]

Yeah, the 2D map had guaranteed features, and (dare I say) more linear play.  But it also had no constructions, and shit-tons more Nobles.

[Jimmy]

As someone who still plays the 2D version, I'd recommend downloading it. It's still on the main download page.

[Sensei]

It also had caveins. Don't dig out 7x7 rooms; leave a pillar every 6 tiles.

The current system is a placeholder, because the existing one didn't translate into 3D too well.

[Im_Sparks]

The newer versions are better in just about every way, except that it's much harder to find all the features that you were guaranteed in the 2d version.  I miss always having a cave river, chasm, magma, sand, tons of ore, and HFS.

This.

I miss all that.

[Sensei]

Yes, I would appreciate seeing 3D magma rivers. It's already on the to-do though.

[Greiger]

the 2D version was also significantly more difficult. 

*You couldn't farm at all during the winter, which meant that unless you were fast you would get no farming at all for the first year.

*The magma was very far from the surface, which made it a stratigic desision to build an infrastructure early or late.  Build early and your workers can quickly access your farms, but often cancel for lunch before they even reach the forges, build late and the food from the farms will often rot before it makes it all the way into the fortress.

*If you dug something out, you couldn't refill it.  A single misdug tile would horribly mess up any large digging project.  Sure you could block it with a door, but a tantrumming dwarf could destroy the door at an inopportune moment.

* There were permafloods, if an artificial water flood struck a natural water source it would become permanent with no reasonable way to remove it.  Many players actually put emergency channels around their fortress for that reason even when they were nowhere near water.

* The cave river flooded every year washing dwarves anywhere near it downriver.  Particularly dangerous since there was no way around the cave river. You were REQUIRED to build a bridge over it.  And anybody crossing it was at risk.  There was no swimming skill.  It was so dangerous that there were multiple designs to reduce casualty counts with specially designed bridge systems.  But even those weren't 100% safety.

* The cave river, chasm, and lava river spawned critters in ambush mode, often large groups.  While the critters themselves weren't very powerful, like the cave river you were required to build a bridge over them, and civilian traffic was often heavy.  You needed to either micromanage your militarty to always have soldiers guarding the features or accept a few civilian casualties every now and then.  Wells would also have a side effect of spawning cave river creatures.

Spoiler: HFS (click to show/hide)

* Adamantine was forbidden. if you dug even a single tile of it your fortress would be instantly destroyed by demons.  No chance to defend yourself the balor was just too powerful.  For every tile of adamantine you mined, it would increase your chance of it happening each year by 1%  Considering how much adamantine is needed to make even small objects it was very prohibitive.  Not to mention the fact that you would encounter the current HFS demon attack LONG before you got anywhere near the stuff with no warning, if you are digging past the magma you WILL hit a demon pit.  And unlike now you could not forbid burning stuff.

* No forbidding objects.  If there was a sock in the middle of a goblin seige you can bet your dwarves will charge singlemindedly at it.  And there wasn't a damn thing you could do other than hope they don't get shot while entrance dancing.

[Fieari]

The fact that you were forced to bridge the river/chasm/magma is the reason many of us really want to see tunneling enemies in the 3d version.  When you can just dig down with nothing attacking you from within, how else are you going to be threatened?

[Leafsnail]

I think flooding rivers would be a nice reintroduction.  They could burst their banks onto "floodplain" squares, which could wash dwarves away if you aren't careful.

And yes, tunnelling enemies would be awesome too.

[Jreengus]

Permafloods were fun, they came from the fact that floods were created by having water in a channel go to through an open floodgate which would turn it into flood water, this would spread until there was no where else for it to go (It would be stopped by doors and turn into channel water when it hit a channel halting it from spreading. When you closed the floodgate it would close the water source, that game would check for any other water sources and if none were found it would generate an anti flood which would act like a normal flood only removing water instead of creating it. Permafloods were caused by a flood hitting a natural water source like the cave river and thus preventing the creation of an antiflood. Other differences. Cave ins would occur if there was a 7x7 open area without pillars. Crafting was lumped into one on the labour designations but the skills were separate (IIRC). Magma could be poured into the cavern to create a red line down the middle and stop critter attacks from it. You would get your first blacksmith and anvil in the autumn (fall for Americans) of your first year, he would turn up regardless of what you chose at embark and sometimes he would bring pets or family with him.