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[Leafsnail]

ok it's a computer, he has a large area inside his wall with a 4x5 rectangle with about 6-8 more spaces scattered next to it. Is there a way to make a living black group? I only needed 5 more moku to win.

The wall will make living a very difficult task in there...

[Micro102]

but is it possible if the computer doesnt make any mistakes?

[Leafsnail]

but is it possible if the computer doesnt make any mistakes?

Computers are hopelessly inferior to some human beings at Go, for now at least.  I think computers reach levels of 10 kyu or so, but can't get much farther.  Their tactics will be solid, but they simply don't have the processing power to develop a coherent overall strategy.  This is partly because there are lot more possibilities than there are in chess.

[Micro102]

In one corner there aren't that man things to think ahead about....So to make eyes in a wall that doesn't have any weaknesses, how much room would you need?

[Leafsnail]

In one corner there aren't that man things to think ahead about....So to make eyes in a wall that doesn't have any weaknesses, how much room would you need?

A heck of a lot, if your computer programme is good.  It's quite a challenge to settle in a solid wall even if your opponent has fenced off a very large area.  Normally I try to snipe off weak points (I have a reputation for playing a crazily agressive game though, and it doesn't always work.  When it does work, however, it's spectacular).

[corvvs]

In one corner there aren't that man things to think ahead about....So to make eyes in a wall that doesn't have any weaknesses, how much room would you need?

Here's a neat exercise - it's called the shape game for some reason. Give black a wall around the entire edge of a 19x19 board. White now has to live inside. I've seen dan players trying it and failing (against other dans... at the kyu level, sure! And it's fun to try, anyway).

It's pretty much accepted that with perfect play white can't live in a 17x17 box with no weaknesses. So 4x5 is too small if there's no avenue of escape (the reason the escape route is needed is so that you have forcing moves where the opponent has to stop you from getting out instead of taking your eyespace).

Somebody told me once that the shape game is even if instead of a solid wall, black has only every 3rd point around the edge. I haven't seen proof yet though.

[Leafsnail]

Wouldn't surprise me.  Triple spaced stones turn out to be a lot more solid than you'd expect.

[Neonivek]

Ohh the Go Anime?

Hikaru Go! (I watch the abridged)

Also Peter (or Will, I confuse the two) actually said Go was more complex then Chess

[Leafsnail]

Ohh the Go Anime?

Hikaru Go! (I watch the abridged)

Also Peter (or Will, I confuse the two) actually said Go was more complex then Chess

Hey!  I've watched some of that!  I think I'll continue when I've finished watching Haruhi, which is confusing enough on its own.

Anyway, it's much easier to learn the basic rules than it is with chess as the basic rules are unbelievably simple.  However, the strategy is generally deeper and less tactics dependant.  For instance, you have to work out whether to actually respond to an opponents move.  Sometimes their move is useless and you could play somewhere else to earn more points than you could by responding.

[Neonivek]

Kind of interesting to learn how broken the Go rules where for hundreds of years.

[Leafsnail]

Kind of interesting to learn how broken the Go rules where for hundreds of years.

Yep.

Fixed now though, right?  I usually play with komi at 7.5, but I know it can be more or less.

[Neonivek]

The broken rules I am hinting at to my knowledge have been fixed.

Though DANG they kept them in play for a while.

[Leafsnail]

The broken rules I am hinting at to my knowledge have been fixed.

Though DANG they kept them in play for a while.

Is it the way that the player who went first had a near insurmountable advantage?

[Neonivek]

Not so much the person who went first as the first person who can make a specific play (Which is the first player) If I am correct (Which is unlikely)

Though yes.

[Leafsnail]

Well, the idea was that the person who went first could just play a defensive game and use the extra points they win by playing first to stay comfortably ahead of white.  It wouldn't work in an amateur games, but pro games tend to come down to just a few points, if that.

EDIT: Hmm, so that's why they call it "Endless 8".  Guess I'll move onto Hikuru soon.