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[a1s]

grammar is beside the point (that's why it's in a spoiler). can we get back to piracy?

[Thndr]

can we get back to piracy?

Not unless you have a valid privateer certificate from your approved government.

Wait, woops. Wrong piracy.
---

Anyway, I think anymore discussion would have the conversation go around in circles from this point on. Seemingly all sides have made their argument towards it and such.

So far we only have 2 thing we all agree on:

• Pirates profiting off from piracy are despicable.
• Invasive DRM is just as evil

[Micro102]

But again, doesn't the EULA or box say that you can't make copies?

For the EULA to be applicable you'd have to agree to it, which a pirate obviously isn't going to do. But yes, the law does state that you can't make copies. Although I was under the impression were were discussing morality, not legality (not much to discuss there).

And i was trying to decide whether you were debating on what was pirating or how to pirate.... lol

[Jackrabbit]

can we get back to piracy?

Not unless you have a valid privateer certificate from your approved government.

Wait, woops. Wrong piracy.

No no, I like this one better.

[Zangi]

can we get back to piracy?

Not unless you have a valid privateer certificate from your approved government.

Wait, woops. Wrong piracy.

No no, I like this one better.

Its great, ever play Uncharted Waters: New Horizon?

Great game.  Being a privateer is good stuff, sinking every bastard that comes your way. And of course, the unfortunate accidents that occasionally happen to the sponsor's ships.  Nothing a few shinies won't fix.

[Muz]

Heh, from what I've seen, a lot of pirates actually buy the original. There's some irony there.

[kcwong]

Piracy isn't really true theft though, because it's possible to pirate without the company losing something, if you pirate something you would never have bought the company hasn't even lost a sale. Compare to if I go into a supermarket and steal a game CD that supermarket can no longer sell the CD. Piracy is intellectual theft which in my opinion shouldn't be classed as theft at all. I'm stealing their right to be the sole producer of that game which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Why are you downloading a copy if you know you would never purchase the piece software?

Because you want to get it for free.

If you don't want to pay for something that's for sale, you don't deserve to have it. If you want to have it, you pay for it.

So the moment you download a pirated copy, that's a lost sale RIGHT THERE.

That's theft.

[ThtblovesDF]

Then again the promisses some games make and fail to deliver feel like theft as well..

[a1s]

there was a study done with some online game, where the developers included better copy protection with new updates. Basically per every 1000 people who would suddenly stop appearing afterwards (it is assumed they were the pirates) sales went up about 10 copies (or 20, I don't remember precisely).
So as a baseline we can say you are cheating the big companies out of about a dollar (on average) every time you pirate. for shame!

Edit: ok, here it is: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17350
also, I would like to apologize for my mistake as to the number of sales per 1000 pirates:

Put another way, for every 1,000 pirated copies we eliminated, we created 1 additional sale.

and, yeah, it's not a real study...

[Virtz]

Why are you downloading a copy if you know you would never purchase the piece software?

Because it might be worth playing as a freeware game but not as a commercial one? For example, I wouldn't purchase an EA sequel if my life depended on it, because it's more of a minor update than a sequel (or a downright downgrade), but if they distributed it free, I wouldn't mind at least trying it. The case is similar for some in case of piracy, there's a certain threshold for quality versus price for some people and they might settle for a game of lesser quality, but only if it's free (even if it does mean breaking the law) or really cheap. Hence why the heavy weekend discounts are becoming more and more popular.

So the moment you download a pirated copy, that's a lost sale RIGHT THERE.

That's theft.

Piracy doesn't translate to lost sales 1:1. That's publishers' wishful thinking, which really fucking backfired when they tried applying hard to crack but also intrusive DRM (read Starforce) to "regain" those mythical lost sales. The only thing Starforce and the likes changed was that legitimate customers had problems and pirates simply waited longer. I'm not saying there aren't any pirates who would buy a game if they couldn't pirate it, but they're definately not the majority.

[justinhoffman]

Ok, i figured this was the right place to put this topic so-
What do you think of pirating?
Personally, i have to rant a bit. I believe that the company should sell their game however they see fit, even though i do dislike it sometimes, i dont go to the low of pirating. If you just payed $60 dollars for a crap game, it was the companys choice to make the (Crap)game sell for 60, even though almost all new games cost that much. If you feel like you were cheated out of your money, why dont you read online reviews/the back of the case first? I hate pirating, so.
On a side note, i believe the pirate bay got purchased by a swedish telemarketer company

  I think people who support pirating generally disassociate product from production.  Things just exist for them to pluck if only the big bad man would let them have it without the pesky paying thing.

  A lot of hard work goes into producing software and they are very rarely profitable.  Producers take a huge gamble in game production, they are the good guys.  They often find the idea guys and pay them to produce a game which will very likely not be profitable.

  There is this very immature concept people get, it seems to bleed into politics as well, where businesses and corporations are evil stealing from the little guy.

  In that world view, taking from the big 'ebil' company is ok, because they are big 'ebil' companies anyway.  It's unfortunate when the reality is, they all love games and take a lot of risks producing games and supporting developers.  Stealing from them hurts everyone, even you the game player.

[Deon]

Hey, let me say it again!
I am not supporting piracy, also I am not supporting big companies which do whatever they please with their "protection", while they break laws trying to trojan my system.
So both sides are wrong. Whichever side you pick, you've evil. Play indie games .

[justinhoffman]

Hey, let me say it again!
I am not supporting piracy, also I am not supporting big companies which do whatever they please with their "protection", while they break laws trying to trojan my system.
So both sides are wrong. Whichever side you pick, you've evil. Play indie games .

Well, both sides are not wrong equally.  Though I agree as a linux user, using such software is a mistake and will not/and cannot use such software natively.

And yes you should play indie games anyway 

[Sordid]

there was a study done with some online game, where the developers included better copy protection with new updates. Basically per every 1000 people who would suddenly stop appearing afterwards (it is assumed they were the pirates) sales went up about 10 copies (or 20, I don't remember precisely).
So as a baseline we can say you are cheating the big companies out of about a dollar (on average) every time you pirate. for shame!

For such a study to be meaningful the devs would have to touch nothing but the DRM. Have they added features, expanded the content, fixed bugs, etc, along with or between the fixes? Doesn't say, and if they had then it's fairly obvious where the increase in popularity came from.

[Sensei]

It's unfortunate when the reality is, they all love games and take a lot of risks producing games and supporting developers.

Are you SURE?

Yes, when companies use antipiracy and such they are just trying to make money that is rightfully theirs. If you don't like the game, don't buy it. Still, you're too extreme to assume that large corporations are never assholes. At least piracy isn't invading other people's property or privacy like some trojan programs do, although you could say that stealing risks as much damage to the victim's assets.

Of course, in a perfect world no-one would pirate and there would be no DRMs. If there were better ways to prevent piracy, maybe that would mean less trojans. Of course, I'm sure the fancy software was (they thought) better than whatever came before.