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[magellan]

No they don't, the internet just gets ever faster, that's all. Even the cheapest connection my ISP offers, 10Mb down/1Mb up, is more than enough for torrents. I'd settle for a tenth that speed for my everyday browsing, but there's simply no such option anymore.

But doesn't that fact show a bit about the demand? Of course a lot of computer related demand is caused by people having no idea what they need ("what do you mean i can write a letter without a dual core?") But not all of it. If there was still enough demand to justifiy a rack of 56k modems taking up valuable space, from an ISP POV, you would be able to buy that kind of service.

[Leafsnail]

I think that the damage to the music industry/ games industry by piracy may be overestimated.  For instance, they tend to treat an illegal download as a lost sale, but would that person really have gone out and bought that music/ movie/ game instead?  At most it would be a lost rental (or a lost Spotify listening if it's a music track, I guess).

[Deon]

Yeah, if I really like some game and have money, I buy it.
I.e. if Toady decides to make DF a game-for-sale, I wouldn't pirate it, I'd buy it (as I did with Mound&blade).
 What it does, it only makes games more popular = free reclame.

[Strife26]

I guess that I don't see much of a problem with pirating from certain companies, especially if you're playing the game JUST so you can dis it in a forum because it is so untrue to the series that it's funny (I'm sure that some of you know what company I speak of). Mind you, I've never gotten a pirated game working.

And I guess that I'll point at my sig if anyone wants the other kind of pirating IN SPAAACE!

[Nivim]

People (as a whole) are scum; if they can get away with pirating, they will do it regardless of price or if they can afford it, and in the process make all sorts of excuse to justify the stealing. It's human nature; you can see the same with drug abuse, excessive drinking, gambling and smoking.

Oversimplification! Note, that because it is such a controversial issue, many people have certain rules about if, and when they pirate. Some people do it after they buy the game so (many reasons, the disc stays good, they can get other features, it might be easier) or they only do it when they know said company has already sold most of their stock. In my case, it is when said torrented media is either free or isn't being sold anymore (how can a company blame someone if they aren't selling it anymore?).
 Also note the situation in which a person enjoys something they torrented, and thus decide to buy it anyway to make sure they have a legitimate copy.

 Directly on the topic of "pirating (not torrenting) cutting into developer profit", I do not think there is a feasible way to determine how much money they are losing, as there are so many situations revolving around the act. My estimate is that most people who pirate (somewhere over 50%) would not buy the game anyway if they could not torrent it. Some do not have money (or are penny-pinchers), some think the game isn't worth the money, some only bothered to get the game because it was available to torrent. I think I am missing a multitude of other possibilities, but I don't recall them.
 I have observed that companies haven't needed to cut costs because of pirating (they have increased them almost exponentially), so I assume they aren't being harmed by it at the current equilibrium. But then again, there haven't been many good games out there to pirate anyway. The bulk the fun stuff seems to be old games.
 Pirating and torrenting in general seem to have had a lot of psychological effects on the populace, I think that list of effects is too complicated to measure accurately. But it seems to get added into the arguments for/against torrenting/pirating anyway.

 I wonder about pirating music though, there are loads and mountains of free, good music of every type (it's everywhere!), so I don't see why people would care to pirate it.
 On a related note, I have always been annoyed that after I get a game, they want me to buy the music separately to listen to (or they don't sell it at all). I've already bought the music as part of the game. Why do so many lock it in? (Bethesda for Oblivion and Morrowind did not do this, they set their file system up to allow full access, and editing. It is nice.)
 Another one of my annoying experiences was getting Dark Messiah and being completely and utterly disappointed. The game was supposedly Might and Magic 10, but I discovered it was apparently a completely different universe from the previous games, it was of a completely different system, and it was a game I hadn't wanted to buy. I didn't even have a party, and I didn't even have a character I could name! It had turned one of the greatest role-playing computer games into a mindless first-person shooter! And I had discovered on install that there was a trojan in the game, it was even called "spyware pro". Like the company payed money for a better version of spyware...although completely disgusting (enraging!), this has not made me pirate games before buying them. Instead, I just ask 3-5 people that have played the game about it first. However, I have heard on this thread that some pirated game versions have been fixed and cleaned, so I might pirate it now.

[x2yzh9]

To the OP, what about EA's games, where they charge normal price, then make you buy half the original content for 100's?

Would you pirate the full game?

No, i would not. I prided myself on having the sims 2 and near all the expansion packs [exluding the stuff packs and glamour stuff]

[qwertyuiopas]

If I ever created a decent game and wanted to sell it, I might consider a system where you can get the full game for free, but it has a little "byu" button in a corner of a menu, out of the way and unobtrusive. It would even gave a setting to remove the button. It would encourage players to "buy" the game, and what they would get, is what they already have. No additional downloads, nothing unlocked. No DRM. The site could even list torrents that have been approved, and checked periodically by trusted people. That way, the only thing you get for pirating the game is a chance of getting a virus or trojan. Even better, a "purchase" may come with a unique unlock key that does nothing, but could be used by a forum to gain access to a "I bought a game" section, or maybe in another game to unlock bonus content. Rank the forum users in an additional category, games purchased? That gives users a minor incentive to actually buy.

Maybe state in the license that the user agrees to purchase the game some time within the next infinte years.

[Leafsnail]

The honour system might work for Indie games, but to be honest you can't take that kind of risk when you've invested millions into a game...

[Thndr]

If I ever created a decent game and wanted to sell it, I might consider a system where you can get the full game for free, but it has a little "byu" button in a corner of a menu, out of the way and unobtrusive. It would even gave a setting to remove the button. It would encourage players to "buy" the game, and what they would get, is what they already have. No additional downloads, nothing unlocked. No DRM. The site could even list torrents that have been approved, and checked periodically by trusted people. That way, the only thing you get for pirating the game is a chance of getting a virus or trojan. Even better, a "purchase" may come with a unique unlock key that does nothing, but could be used by a forum to gain access to a "I bought a game" section, or maybe in another game to unlock bonus content. Rank the forum users in an additional category, games purchased? That gives users a minor incentive to actually buy.

Maybe state in the license that the user agrees to purchase the game some time within the next infinte years.

So you want to sell 'smug'?

Buying the game makes it seem like they get something in return, something others don't have. Otherwise it's just a donation.

So basically just give away free stuff that didn't require much effort to make. and label the versions "Standard" (free) and "Collector's//Enhanced//Limited Edition" ($). Provide extra content in the payed version, like artbook or whatever.

[Skeeblix]

To the OP, what about EA's games, where they charge normal price, then make you buy half the original content for 100's?

Would you pirate the full game?

No, i would not. I prided myself on having the sims 2 and near all the expansion packs [exluding the stuff packs and glamour stuff]

Congratulations on supporting a faceless corporation with a shitty business model wherein they make you pay $30 every two months so you can get five new pieces of furniture for your little digital people.

Granted, this is good for them, but you have to consider something here. It's a shifty tactic to get as much money as possible out of people, and not really a justified amount for the amount of "new" content they add. There used to be ethics among software companies. It wasn't about making expansion packs every other week to grub as much money out of stupid consumers as possible. Once upon a time the gaming industry was about providing a quality entertainment experience for people to enjoy in their spare time. It's long since become everything BUT that.

[x2yzh9]

To the OP, what about EA's games, where they charge normal price, then make you buy half the original content for 100's?

Would you pirate the full game?

No, i would not. I prided myself on having the sims 2 and near all the expansion packs [exluding the stuff packs and glamour stuff]

Congratulations on supporting a faceless corporation with a shitty business model wherein they make you pay $30 every two months so you can get five new pieces of furniture for your little digital people.

Granted, this is good for them, but you have to consider something here. It's a shifty tactic to get as much money as possible out of people, and not really a justified amount for the amount of "new" content they add. There used to be ethics among software companies. It wasn't about making expansion packs every other week to grub as much money out of stupid consumers as possible. Once upon a time the gaming industry was about providing a quality entertainment experience for people to enjoy in their spare time. It's long since become everything BUT that.

EA may make shitty, spawn of satan games, but there is literally NO justification to pirating a game, in my view, the only one is buying the actual game first, then create a pirated version and not distribute it to others. As a developer you learn to have a different perspective.

[Luke_Prowler]

If it's a game that would normal be hard to find (old or obscure games), I'm ok with pirating.

I miss shareware

[Sergius]

Although I don't know how this carries over to games I remember reading a study that people who pirate music are apparently eight time more likely to actually buy it or something similar.

Yes but that was an independent study made by a highly qualified group of people with no connections to the Video Game Industry and thus was biased.

The Software Companies have stated numerous times that every time a game is pirated they actually have to remove the price of the game from their own pockets and give it to the pirates, as such they lose money each time. That's why piracy is the same as stealing. And rape.

[Sensei]

"The Software Companies"?

Maybe that was a specific deal where if the software company's anti-piracy didn't work they had to pay the publisher?

I'm going to need more context here...

[Micro102]

To the OP, what about EA's games, where they charge normal price, then make you buy half the original content for 100's?

Would you pirate the full game?

No, i would not. I prided myself on having the sims 2 and near all the expansion packs [exluding the stuff packs and glamour stuff]

Congratulations on supporting a faceless corporation with a shitty business model wherein they make you pay $30 every two months so you can get five new pieces of furniture for your little digital people.

Granted, this is good for them, but you have to consider something here. It's a shifty tactic to get as much money as possible out of people, and not really a justified amount for the amount of "new" content they add. There used to be ethics among software companies. It wasn't about making expansion packs every other week to grub as much money out of stupid consumers as possible. Once upon a time the gaming industry was about providing a quality entertainment experience for people to enjoy in their spare time. It's long since become everything BUT that.

EA may make shitty, spawn of satan games, but there is literally NO justification to pirating a game, in my view, the only one is buying the actual game first, then create a pirated version and not distribute it to others. As a developer you learn to have a different perspective.

So what if you bought the original game...Would you pirate that new set of different colored furniture?