Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Khyron]

Step 1 : Introduce a new mechanic that allows haulers to haul multiple items per trip, based on item weight and hauler strength. Dwarves will only haul items going to the same destination (Workshop, Stockpile, or Tile) from the same source (Workshop, Stockpile, or Tile), so they'll transport a dozen mugs from the workshop to a stockpile, but they won't pick up five different logs to haul back to the fort (Or carry multiple stones, etc etc etc). This does mean that they'd collect 20 seeds from a single chair and dump them all in a bag though, or five different body chunks to the same dump. Hoorah!

Step 2 : SLAVES.

Introduce a new metal item : Manacles.

Squads can carry them into battle. When an enemy falls unconcious they can be captured using Manacles and hauled off to a jail. Also, humanoids captured via cage traps to be taken prisoner and sent to a jail. Even certain megabeasts.

Once in prison, you can attempt to subdue a hostile creature with Manacles. Subdued creatures have a toggle under their preferences : Labor or Imprisoned. When you set them to Labor, they go out and act as a hauler (And work irregardless of any wounds they took while being captured, albeit with the appropriate penalties). When Imprisoned, they rot in a cell.

For an added bonus, allow the subdued creature a low chance* to attempt to escape. Your goblin haulers might try to get free, and in doing so need to be put down by the military. Your captured titan might be an incredible hauler who can cart around  time, but when he breaks free he'll wreak havoc until taken down.

* The chance to escape is based on three factors : The manacles strength (Basically their value, since value = Material * Quality which seems a good way to measure strength), the strength of the creature, and the amount of other slaves nearby. An area full of slaves would be more likely to revolt than a creature all by his lonesome.

Lastly, enslaved creatures can be released for all the namby-pamby people who think it's wrong to force goblins or kobolds to act as living wheelbarrows. But hey, if it's good enough for Tropico 2, it's good enough for me!

[Ralje]

Step 2 : SLAVES.

  Eeeevil.

[CarrKnight]

Slaves are already implemented in the adventure mode like elven children in human settlement or human children in dark towers. It could be a neat expansion (albeit a cruel one) to allow them in the fortress mode.

[Granite26]

Hauling is a problem because of the time taken pathfinding... slaves aren't going to fix that...

[Sizik]

Dwarves: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
Elves: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_EXILE]
Humans: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
Goblins: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
Kobolds: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:UNTHINKABLE]

[Luke_Prowler]

Dwarves: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
Elves: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_EXILE]
Humans: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
Goblins: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
Kobolds: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:UNTHINKABLE]

Shouldn't the goblin and human ones be switched?

[Sizik]

Shouldn't the goblin and human ones be switched?

Nope

[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]

[Grendus]

Dwarves: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
Elves: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_EXILE]
Humans: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
Goblins: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
Kobolds: [ETHIC:SLAVERY:UNTHINKABLE]

Shouldn't the goblin and human ones be switched?

Up until recent times, pretty much every culture had some form of slavery. I'm not sure about goblins not being [ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE], as they're a baby snatcher race, but for humans it's not really surprising.

[Cruxador]

Keeping slaves is kind of tasteless for goblins though. It implies that they're unable to do stuff by themselves, they need a slave to help out. I think PERSONAL_MATTER is about right.

[HammerHand]

There are several ways of looking at Dwarves and slavery.  I can think of two off-hand:

1.)  Dwarves, being very concerned with the ideal of work (and being a hard worker), might not like the idea of anyone doing work without its proper reward.

2.)  Dwarves, being concerned with efficiency, and with craftsmanship, might really love having a bunch of "other jerks" doing all the less glorious work for them.

If the above raw quotes are correct, I suppose the point is moot, but I would think that such ethics would more logically be based on civilization than species.  Two separate human civs, for example, might (and have) fight whole wars over slavery.  ...If they don't already.  I haven't played around with Legends mode much.

I'd see Slavery as a thoroughly applicable option when building a fortress.  Is it evil?  Probably.  Is it efficient?  Possibly.  Will it fix hauling?  No.

Hauling will still have to be done.  It just won't be done by Dwarves.  Something will still have to path around, something will still have to eat and/or drink, and something will still contribute to your fortress's population and FPS.  You'd just have more of your migrants to work on non-hauling jobs... and honestly, I don't have that much of a problem with needing more craftsdwarves.

[Grendus]

Two separate human civs, for example, might (and have) fight whole wars over slavery.

Not to derail the thread, but please tell me you're referring to anything (ANYTHING) besides the American Civil War. It would restore some of my faith in the public education system.

[Granite26]

Two separate human civs, for example, might (and have) fight whole wars over slavery.

Not to derail the thread, but please tell me you're referring to anything (ANYTHING) besides the American Civil War. It would restore some of my faith in the public education system.

The British did some attacking of slaver colonies in Africa around 1800, didn't they?  The war of 1812 (and Johnson's ear, etc)was at least in part fought over the British impressing American sailors.

Things like Moses escape from Egypt and Sparticus' rebellion come to mind.

History is lacking in examples of full-on wars to erradicate slavery (imho) due to the fact that the realization of the immorality of slavery coincided neatly with the reduced efficacy of slave labor due to approaching industrialization.

Offensive Warning: The following will piss you off:

Historically, slavery was not the 'great evil' that it is now considered to be, especially in relation to the social justice of the rest of the culture.  Societies were not divided into perfectly 'free' men and completely 'enslaved' men.  There was a steady progression of rights from king to noble, aristocrat, gentleman, freeman, serf and slave.  The Code of Hamurabi includes separate punishments for individuals based on their class.

I guess what I'm saying is that in a society where rights are derived from class, slavery is no more a moral outrage than serfdom or nobility.  Modern (racial) slavery was (imho) worse, because it was race based and based on the concept of racial superiority, and meant that one group was held in perminent servitude.  It was generational and not a way for captured peoples to be integrated into society.

[HatfieldCW]

Back on topic, I think multi-item hauling would be a great application for backpacks.  Could "hauling jobs" be organized in groups?

For instance, if there are ten rock crafts in a work shop and a finished goods stockpile in the next room, all ten of them appear in the "jobs" list as hauling jobs, and all ten crafts can be simultaneously flagged with the "TSK" marker, correct?  So could all ten of them be assigned to the same dwarf, so he'll come over either with his trusty backpack (standard issue for anyone with hauler jobs enabled) and scoop them all up.

If he's hauling to a pile with bins enabled, he could even bring a bin with him and load it up, then take the whole shebang over to the destination.

Likewise, dumping items should use a backpack, so one guy can go get a dead goblin's entire non-metal wardrobe and haul it to Magma Cliff in one go.  In fact, if there are forty-three narrow socks laying around, all flagged to be dumped, he could grab his pack and walk around the field, filling it up with bloody loincloths, then cart them all away.

[HammerHand]

Two separate human civs, for example, might (and have) fight whole wars over slavery.

Not to derail the thread, but please tell me you're referring to anything (ANYTHING) besides the American Civil War. It would restore some of my faith in the public education system.

I was, indeed, referring to something else, though it's certainly not the fault of the public education system.  US Public Ed is so inadequate that it's sickening.   In fact, I can't recall a specific war fought between two different human cultures that was about slavery.  You could say I generally assumed that the enslaved tended to rally against their misfortune (and, since they were becoming slaves, usually lost), but there are other reasons that persons (or people(s)) might be enslaved, ranging from debt to social status to religious decree to a simple manifestation of their culture's justice.  Or maybe slavery's just an accepted business, and people sell whomever they have a right to sell (perhaps their own children, or the orphans of their relatives that they can't afford to feed) just to make it by.

BUT!  Back on topic:  Hauling backpacks/bins has been a long-running suggestion, and I doubt saying anything about it here will help get it into the game any faster.  Loading a carried bin up with several items would be nice, but the number of "item lost or destroyed" cancellations would rise dramatically as several Dwarves walking about the map would pick up the items that all the others intended to grab.

[HatfieldCW]

BUT!  Back on topic:  Hauling backpacks/bins has been a long-running suggestion, and I doubt saying anything about it here will help get it into the game any faster.  Loading a carried bin up with several items would be nice, but the number of "item lost or destroyed" cancellations would rise dramatically as several Dwarves walking about the map would pick up the items that all the others intended to grab.

I'm not so sure.  After all, a stone that's been earmarked for a construction becomes "off-limits" to other dwarfs, so they won't use it for their projects, or even move it out of the way of a door they're building.  Maybe hauling could be queued up in a set, so he goes out there with ten items in mind, each of those items gets a "TSK" flag and nobody else bothers with them.  If he gets thirsty in the meantime, he just gets a drink and then picks up where he left off, as though he were making a weapon trap or building a paved road.