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[Sensei]

Well, they have to actually be worth that. In that case, no-one would have them. Of course, an inflation model would be nice, but I don't think that's really on the table until the caravan arc gets serious.

[Wolfius]

Well, they have to actually be worth that.

In which case you don't get to set their value, you make them more valuable. 

Say, stud them with gems or the ilk.

[Sensei]

I mean, worth it for their rarity. Remember, currency evolved first as coins of small, valuable metal, and then into promissory notes. In other words, this note, token, or seal can be redeemed from the government for X ounces of gold (or whatever). So for you tin to be 150,000, either a mug of beer will be worth 500,000 or the government must be able to repay 150,000 dorfbucks in material for it. This doesn't mean that you necessarily have to 15,000,000 dorfbucks of material if you make ten coins though, the idea is that soem coins will always be circulating at any time. Of course, is you have 5,000,000 dorfbucks and ten people try to turn in their 150,000 dorfbuck coins on the same day, the economy crashes. That's essentially what happened in 1929.

[Rowanas]

On that note, we need to be able to make coins out of anything. I want to have iron coinage, and bronze and stuff like that. Copper, silver, gold only is fail. Make them out of any material, and you can set the actual monetary value through a screen like the z menu or whatever. Adding to eternal suggestions.

You can make coins out of anything already, no modding needed. They just won't be used for money(which is, imo, currently an advantage if you like coins but want to both use the economy and avoid epic coin scattering).

My last fort minted one stack of electrum coins a year and sealed them in a section of the vaults. An older fort had a noble who liked coins, so I minted them in dwarfy iron when the mandates came up and stashed them in the vault. You could also mint commemorative coins for significant events.

Setting their value, however, strikes me as absurd - not unless we can have asset-backed currencies. As-is they get their value from their composition(and quality/etc modifiers) - or should, anyway. What you're asking for would seem for like a fiat-based currency system, which I'd say is pretty inappropriate for the setting(well, atleast for external trade).

I mean, how realistic would it be to buy out a large caravan with a single stack of tin coins, just because your dwarves claim they're worth, say, ☼150'000?

Sorry, is that not how modern economics works (rhetorical question)? In truth it is mainly other civs that decide how much your money is REALLY worth. You could (and the government does) say that they are worth something different every month, and as a result you will find your trading partners unwilling to trade, or discover that your coins are not worth as much inside the closed economy fort as they are outside it. I think this, mixed with the supply and demand model that Toady (armok be with him) has said he wants to introduce, would make for an excellent aspect of DF. You would need to keep your trading power up if you want to use coins, or you could merely ensure that you meet demand with proper supply and screw the coin-based method of trade.

EDIT: Sensei, it happened in 2008 as well

[Wolfius]

I mean, worth it for their rarity. Remember, currency evolved first as coins of small, valuable metal, and then into promissory notes. In other words, this note, token, or seal can be redeemed from the government for X ounces of gold (or whatever). So for you tin to be 150,000, either a mug of beer will be worth 500,000 or the government must be able to repay 150,000 dorfbucks in material for it. This doesn't mean that you necessarily have to 15,000,000 dorfbucks of material if you make ten coins though, the idea is that soem coins will always be circulating at any time. Of course, is you have 5,000,000 dorfbucks and ten people try to turn in their 150,000 dorfbuck coins on the same day, the economy crashes. That's essentially what happened in 1929.

Let's... avoid getting into the crash of 1929.

But what you're talking about is an asset-based currency(which would bring about... issues. Like having to keep vaults of material to back every coin you ever mint, including those you exported ten years ago - or such exploits as minting cheap coins backed by fabulous wealth... then selling all the coins at high prices, befor turning around and selling off/etc. the backing wealth, leaving traders(or who ever they pass them on to) holding near-worthless coins. Or just doing whatever you want with it, really, unless you have to worry about folks showing to wanting to redeam it - say, a ☼Throne☼/☼Table☼-backed currency making use of your dining room?  ), which I mentioned.

Setting their value, however, strikes me as absurd - not unless we can have asset-backed currencies.

 

Sorry, is that not how modern economics works (rhetorical question)?

A fiat-based currency gains value through, essentially, the word of the government, and the faith of the people in that government and(more importantly) it's economy.

It is also wholly inappropriate for DF, IMO, especially being issued by player forts. They are neither stable enough, old enough, or large enough to justify that kind of faith, and it's really rather open to player abuse. Bad inflation? Just add a few more zeros to the denomination of the new lead coins!

[Judas Maccabeus]

It is also wholly inappropriate for DF, IMO, especially being issued by player forts. They are neither stable enough, old enough, or large enough to justify that kind of faith, and it's really rather open to player abuse. Bad inflation? Just add a few more zeros to the denomination of the new lead coins!

That's actually a common response to inflation in real life.  As long as the consequence of doing it (hyperinflation; see 1920s Germany, 1940s Hungary, or recent Zimbabwe for examples) is modeled, of course.

You're right about the forts themselves not being likely able to support their own currency, though.  More likely, they'd use the currency of whichever civ they're a part of (and minting licenses could become a concern in a more extensive system...)

[Mephansteras]

Shouldn't all of this conversation on coinage and economies shift to a different thread? It's fascinating and useful, but a bit off-topic.

[Lord Dakoth]

^ Affirmative. I'll start a new thread if there isn't one already.

EDIT: Started the thread. It can be found here.

[Phantom]

Money Crisis?

[Holy Mittens]

Well, there's always a way to rectify his low kill count.

Back on topic, I am currently feeding him captured goblins, elves, and other hostiles to skill him up in Hammers. By the time he's finished, he should have quite a kill list.

[DeathOfRats]

Well, there's always a way to rectify his low kill count.

Back on topic, I am currently feeding him captured goblins, elves, and other hostiles to skill him up in Hammers. By the time he's finished, he should have quite a kill list.

Considering we're talking about an elf here... is the "feeding" part literal? 

[Vester]

Blasphemy! HE IS A DWARF.

Come to think of it, have you found him any armor yet? I know you mentioned offing a human or elf siege earlier on.

[Holy Mittens]

No, the feeding is not literal. As far as I can tell, the cannibalism is a societal trait, not a racial one. All the elves that are part of my civ do not devour their enemies.

Also, no. He simply won't pick up armor, no matter what I do. I believe it has to do something with his size. In order to get him to actually try taking stuff, I need to make him a dwarf using DC. But I think it still considers him to be elf-sized when I do that, so it won't let him put on the armor. But at the same time, it says "Oh, he's a dwarf, so he can't use Large items" so it doesn't even bother checking them. At least that's what I assume.

So far, he hasn't needed it though. At one point, I put him up against three armed goblins at once and he still killed them without a scratch.

[Holy Mittens]

Oh, and I just noticed this:

[Vester]

That is...

That is a very apt title.