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[Rilder]

To be fair, exploiting the followers is pretty much part of the definition of a "cult".

To be fair I think christianity is...

NO RILDER STOP IT, DON'T START IT DON'T.. JUST DON'T...

[Muz]

Sure, believe everything you find on Wikipedia. Just because it has 70 citations doesn't mean it's true!

[Vester]

To be fair, exploiting the followers is pretty much part of the definition of a "cult".

To be fair I think christianity is...

NO RILDER STOP IT, DON'T START IT DON'T.. JUST DON'T...

Popes were more awesome back in the day, when they had armies and political affiliations, and suchlike. Can you say "Imperium of Man"?

[Armok]

To be fair, exploiting the followers is pretty much part of the definition of a "cult".

To be fair I think christianity is...

NO RILDER STOP IT, DON'T START IT DON'T.. JUST DON'T...

Popes were more awesome back in the day, when they had armies and political affiliations, and suchlike. Can you say "Imperium of Man"?

Were do you think the people who made it up got the idea from?

[Vester]

To be fair, exploiting the followers is pretty much part of the definition of a "cult".

To be fair I think christianity is...

NO RILDER STOP IT, DON'T START IT DON'T.. JUST DON'T...

Popes were more awesome back in the day, when they had armies and political affiliations, and suchlike. Can you say "Imperium of Man"?

Were do you think the people who made it up got the idea from?

Ahem.



There you have it.

Also this is really fantastically off topic, except that I imagine Scientologists who support suppression are fairly close to this.

[G-Flex]

I have to wonder how many Scientologists even know the history of their own religion.

It really has all the trappings of a cult:

• Doesn't clue you in on the entire belief structure (much less history) or make it open to non-members, instead indoctrinating you one step at a time
• Persuades you to cut ties with (and even persecute) those who don't belong, and practically give up your old life (I think)
• Highly, highly moralistic and divisive, to the point where the group all but declares war on its ideological opponents
• Deceptively recruits members, by doing things like misrepresenting the belief system (see the first point) and running front organizations and sucking people in with "personality tests"
• Financial extortion of its members
• Threats of physical violence against nonmembers and possibly members/former members
• The general belief that the organization is above the law (see: ... this thread)
• Dogma revealed by a single, charismatic leader (although the charisma is certainly questionable)
• Dogma claiming to be the only key to happiness, mental health, etc., discrediting actual science in the process

I could probably go on, or organize this better, but yeah.

I'm generally a tolerant guy when it comes to religion, so while I find their beliefs rather bogus (and quite silly, being stuff drafted by a cheap sci-fi author in order to make a buck or two), my main problem is the fact that, well, as an organization they're just plain evil and frighten the hell out of me.

[Vester]

• Persuades you to cut ties with (and even persecute) those who don't belong, and practically give up your old life (I think)
• Highly, highly moralistic and divisive, to the point where the group all but declares war on its ideological opponents
• The general belief that the organization is above the law (see: ... this thread)
• Dogma claiming to be the only key to happiness, mental health, etc., discrediting actual science in the process

Even discounting that Scientology seems fairly silly, they are a real and pervasive belief system that could possibly be harmful to people everywhere.

I mean, you don't see the Church of England suing Wikipedia over articles.

[G-Flex]

Yeah, it's just that the core belief system is still beside the point when talking about how the organization itself is screwed up. You could easily belief in all or most of the Scientologist religion itself without, you know, agreeing to any of the junk the church itself does.

[Ampersand]

The beliefs of the CoS inform the actions of the CoS. They go hand in hand. If one has the beliefs without the actions, that person is a hypocrite.

[Zironic]

After making and losing a huge amount of money on the book - Dianetics. He decided he'd make a religion which he could permanently make money on. It was successful.

[G-Flex]

The beliefs of the CoS inform the actions of the CoS. They go hand in hand. If one has the beliefs without the actions, that person is a hypocrite.

Not necessarily. The BASIC religious tenets of the CoS have nothing to do with the horrible things that the organization have done. Yeah, some church directives and documents do, but you can believe essentially the same stuff Scientologists believe in without liking the organization, in theory.

[Jude]

France had the right idea when they declared Scientology a cult.

Do cults get different legal treatment than any other religion? I can only imagine they do. As creepy and bad as scientology is, the government having the authority to declare one religion legitimate and another illegitimate is far, far worse and scarier.

Here
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1901373,00.html

Wasn't because they were a cult, but because they were a dangerous cult whose intent is to exploit its followers.

Still, governments shouldn't have the right to declare one religion a religion and therefore OK, and another a cult and therefore not OK. If the organization is corrupt, you punish the organization, but separately from what religion they are affiliated with. Otherwise you're eroding an essential part of the protection of individual liberty.

[Vester]

Well, France is incredibly secular.

They just don't like religion over there.

But I get your point. Individual liberty is at risk any time the government steps in to regulate something it should rightly be separate from.

[HAMMERMILL]

Well, metropolitian France and its government is very secular, its rural areas haven't changed in geography, ethnicity or culture much since the first world war.

Outside of Paris and the major cities, its pretty conservative and traditional.

[Jude]

Well, France is incredibly secular.

They just don't like religion over there.

But I get your point. Individual liberty is at risk any time the government steps in to regulate something it should rightly be separate from.

Definitely. They don't like religion. I don't like the KKK, but if I try to legislate against them because I don't like their opinions, I'm worse than they are.