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[Cerol Lenslens]

It strikes me that the kids end up in the safest possible place to be - the one place guaranteed not to have been smashed by Lord English during his entire timespace-transcending rampage - the session that created him. If that isn't a happy ending, I dunno what is. (As for the future lack of viability of the human race, well, given that the three non-scratch sessions we know of were all started by different species, that's probably just the nature of the end of the universe.)

Meanwhile, like I've said before - Cal never finished his nigh-impossible-to-win game. Everything that he does as Lord English is part of the self-creating paradox all Sburbgrubwhatever players go through - in this case he ensures the creation of his own session. His Green Sun is undone, of course, as we knew it would be because it had to not be there in that spot when Rose and Dave come to ignite it. I still think this is why Doc Scratch claimed LE was already accounted for by Paradox Space - he was supposed to do all that stuff. And then he loses, having fulfilled his destiny.

Admittedly, I'm not sure how the Homosuck depiction of Cal getting juju'd along with a good chunk of the cast fits in to all this. Maybe that gets covered in the game? Maybe it involves an erased timeline's cast, thus creating Lord English from a glitch? Yeah, I have no clue.

Also, priceless timepieces destroyed: 101 (again). Seems fairly clear that this is how Caliborn obtained some of his immortality - he broke the thing that decides if his death would be just or heroic with the juju-breaking juju.

[Arcvasti]

After rewatching Act 7 again, I have one complaint:

I feel like it ends like five seconds too soon. Like, John opening the door and Dave charging out with Caledscratch while LE makes a horrified 8-ball face would have felt quite a bit more satisfying.

Spoiler:  re: Vriska (click to show/hide)

I actually don't mind her role in the story. I think I'd have preferred it if she'd stayed dead and unretconned, but this works too. Her thing has always been causing massive damage by inserting herself into events to gratify her ego. And her character development as a ghost was finally just letting go of that and living their own life/undeath/whatever. But Retcon!Vriska doesn't get that and still makes those same mistakes[Albeit more successfully]. And the reason I'm kinda OK with that is because she gets hella dead for it. She doesn't get her happy ending on Earth because that version of her doesn't deserve it.

Aranea is honestly about the same. The only reason I tolerate her in the story is because she ultimately get erased from the timeline completely for her shenanigans.

[Sergarr]

Funnily enough, in the archive, Homestuck' status is still [IN PROGRESS].

[Putnam]

the map isn't update either, it's meaningless

[frostshotgg]

Spoiler:  re: Vriska (click to show/hide)

I actually don't mind her role in the story. I think I'd have preferred it if she'd stayed dead and unretconned, but this works too. Her thing has always been causing massive damage by inserting herself into events to gratify her ego. And her character development as a ghost was finally just letting go of that and living their own life/undeath/whatever. But Retcon!Vriska doesn't get that and still makes those same mistakes[Albeit more successfully]. And the reason I'm kinda OK with that is because she gets hella dead for it. She doesn't get her happy ending on Earth because that version of her doesn't deserve it.

Aranea is honestly about the same. The only reason I tolerate her in the story is because she ultimately get erased from the timeline completely for her shenanigans.

The problem with Vriska is that it's not about her actions in the story that messed things up. Because she was afforded plot protections reserved to the central protagonist or antagonist despite not being that character because Hussie liked fucking around, any time the plot dealt with the trolls, the story had to warp around the fact that a character isn't dying when they should be, which is particularly problematic when part of the plot is most of the cast on the meteor dying. Hussie's obsession with memeing on his audience with a character who never faces consequences for her actions eventually came back to bite him in the ass, but at that point he was ass deep in memepuppets and couldn't just kill her off.

[Liber celi]

Aradia escaped certain death one or two times more than Vriska. You can't measure her importance with how much the universe warped to keep her alive. The problem to me was how much agency she did take from all other characters. The trolls' whole group dynamic consisted of containing Vriska. John had little choice but submit to her future-seeing advice. Even the main bad guy at the time was her doing. All of Act 5 was Vriska shadowboxing.

[Trapezohedron]

Personally, homestuck's ending was okay. But there are severe problems.

1. The post collide stretch was marked with a lack of dialogue. This ended up with shit...
2. ...being implied, instead of being statec outright.

Compare Undertale:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Asriel regains his form by absorbing souls from every single monster, and fights Frisk, who is explicitly pacifisting in this route. Frisk visibily pacifies Asriel by going through the rounds and empathizing with their souls, showing methodology and cause. Frisk's powers are explicitly explained because of determination, or a power only humans have. Determined humans could reject outcomes and restart at certain points in their lives. This power is stated to be innate.

After Asriel realizes his mistakes and the full weight of his actions, he restores all monsterkind via using his godlike powers, and the monsters are shown to be alive and well, and their main obstacle: the barrier, broken. They then leave the caves to appeal with the rest of humanity outside.

Only Asriel remains in the caves.

The only thing people have against this is that, that character remains in the caves by virtue of his actions and believe him to be unworthy of suffering that fate.

In homestuck's case, the leadup is basically humans standing on the final floor, the rings being dropped into the forge and quite possibly causing BS to wake up and fertilize Skaia, to grant them their final wish and restore the world that they had. In the meantime, Lord English is killed offscreen via an applied dose of cueball into his eightball face into the black hole.

We are not exactly told about the powers of the weapon (deus ex machina), except that it can undo Lord English, and for some reason, it grants John his power to retcon shit. Was the weapon active all along and LE's death at that point being guaranteed?

The other factor is Old!Calliope. Her existence also smells of deus ex machina, by virtue of her presence not entirely being explained. How did Calliope gain powers par Lord English, when, i'm sure I forgot, but she wasn't prototyped with a guardian, sprite, another player, an insidious calculating pair of glasses and a guaranteed immortality from everything? How is she able to create a black hole out of nowhere that is equally powerful to that of the green sun, when she isn't basically Lord English? Jade, being prototyped with a guardian, doesn't lose her powers and manages to resize the world back to normal, when the green sun is a constant in all universes?

There's a lot of information that could have been explained had calliope not been obscure as fuck and the story adapting a normal dialoguelog approach on act 7.

[Liber celi]

http://imgur.com/a/9ucF7

That right there distills every major issue I've had with Homestuck for a long, long time. Hussie should have run this past an editor first. Good story, poor execution - at least for the last couple years.

I disagree on a basic level. "Rules" of storytelling are useful tools. Nothing more.
The claim that Homestuck is a "heroic story" is disputable. Personally I'm sick of Tension arcs.
Did the critic really demand a "happy ending" under point 2? Pft.
There can be a lot of satisfaction in a plan surviving contact with the enemy. Unexpected factors showed up and the characters dealt with them.
I want to agree on the prota- vs antagonist thing but only because it would've been absolutely insanely awesome to have everybody in the same skirmish. BUT not all problems are solved by applying a warhammer to them. English is an opposing force to the other players. They work on removing him.
The pre-fight pacing was alright. People talking while the gathering storm hangs above their head. Every character getting a few words in. Homestuck as a  whole is horridly paced.


Still agree on the Vriska thing. Game Over really was a waste and nothing Davepeta says can fix that. And being left without closure for any surviving characters sucks. And Homestuck as a whole is a lumbering frankensteinian giant with horrid pacing. And what the hell was up with that trickster mode.

[frostshotgg]

Trapzohedron: you forget there are still powers that come with classpects. Jane's flight and planet shrinking are from being witch of space, and Callie's black hole powers come from being muse of space.

[TheBiggerFish]

*Jade not Jane

[penguinofhonor]

Are Jade's powers because of her aspect? We've seen first guardians do shrinking, so I assumed that's where she got that from (especially since things tend to glow bright green while she's shrinking/growing them). I also thought her ability to fly was sprite powers.

[Osmosis Jones]

I also thought her ability to fly was sprite powers.

Flight is from God Tier, as that represents the merging of the waking and dream (who can fly) selves. See Vriska/Aradia/John/etc.

[Dorsidwarf]

Bear in mind that "Witch of Space" is a really powerful class anyway.

Plus, pretty sure the whole "Shrink down meteors and planets thing" was Witch of Space powers, because Bec didn't do that to save Jade, he fired a laser the size of africa at the incoming meteor

[penguinofhonor]

Well obviously first guardians can do that too, but his powers aren't limited to laser beams or he couldn't have gotten himself and Jade to be the proper size to ride on this bullet:

[Dorsidwarf]

Crap, I forgot about that