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[Boea]

Oh well I think I may know what's up now.

That's probably the Cal, Dirk dropped or the Cal sometime before it was inserted into the Beta session.

The Felt Cal is either from Doc [so LE's Cal] or something else [straight from the Alternian Session and Alternian-Alpha Session Transit... possessed possibly by something else]

If that Cal is Doc's Cal, then that means Cal has been around for Aeons with Lord English, and Doc Scratch [both are bad things] and that he was brought back into the Alternian Session Pre-Possessed, which actually seems worse than before.

[Putnam]

They're both just... Cal. They're all Lil' Cal. Don't think of any of them as different.

[Boea]

The timeline that they follow matters.
That and the distinctions can make it easier to track Cal within his natural passage of subjective time.

Besides, Beta and Alpha Cal are different, one's destroyed, one's not.

[Putnam]

The timeline that they follow matters.

Not really; Cal is a timeless constant at this point.

[Boea]

The timeline that they follow matters.

Not really; Cal is a timeless constant at this point.

It matters when it comes to timeline progression, if anything, the circuitous path Cal moves through limits the leniency that the Alpha Timeline has.
It also matters who is around Cal because there are generally a few people that can possess Cal, the end result is Jack English getting possessed, and the most likely person is LE. So was Cal in the Alternian Session, and clothed in Felt Duds? Yes. For how long, probably eons upon eons around Doc Scratch and Lord English. Who does Jack English resemble the most when it comes to powers, and disposition, and appearance.

Too powerful to be Caliborn, too angry too, and I think the silly eyes, gold leg, and silly aura speaks a lot of who.

[Putnam]

...Caliborn. Caliborn is the Lord of Time, explicitly a very powerful class. Caliborn is a little asshole who appears to have green sun powers and wants his sister dead a whole fucking lot. Green sun powers make people emotional, mostly because of the goddamn sun in your eyes all day forever. Silly eyes were shown on Jack English, who was possessed by... Caliborn. Because Caliborn put his soul into Cal. Caliborn is also a silly boy, who is a Cherub. Cherubs consider sillyness, gaiety and general carefreeness to be ideal.

[Darvi]

I personally suscribe to the theory that there is no beta-lil' cal, and that the one Dave grew up with is somehow the one Caliborn has with him at the moment, but in the future.

Don't ask how that would work. The little bastard doesn't make sense anyway.

[Putnam]

Don't ask how that would work. The little bastard doesn't make sense anyway.

By the end, it'll all be explained. Remember, Homestuck is a puzzle as well as a story. It's almost an adventure game already!

[Boea]

...Caliborn. Caliborn is the Lord of Time, explicitly a very active class. LE is a little asshole who appears to have green sun powers and wants Calliope dead a whole fucking lot. Green sun powers make people emotional, mostly because of the goddamn sun in your eyes all day forever. Silly eyes were shown on Jack English, who was possessed by... LE. Because LE/Doc put his curse into Cal after Caliborn. Caliborn is also a silly boy, who is a Cherub. Cherubs consider zillyness, gaiety and general carefreeness to be ideal given the massive power bonus, and how much the negatives don't effect them at all.

Caliborn doesn't especially want Calliope to be dead that much anymore, she's already dead from his perspective, and it have driven through his skull quite gratuitously that it was a bad idea, by the time of his Communion.
And you need to consider that a First Guardian made with/of Cal, with the characteristics of a Dominant Cherub, and Lord of Time is perfectly capable of possessing Cal, especially over several aeons.

I personally suscribe to the theory that there is no beta-lil' cal, and that the one Dave grew up with is somehow the one Caliborn has with him at the moment, but in the future.

You mean Dirk, and Bro Strider.

By the end, it'll all be explained. Remember, Homestuck is a puzzle as well as a story. It's almost an adventure game already!

Where he is, when and why are mostly explained, especially in the case how it came into the possession of the Striders.
The question is where from before that?

[frostshotgg]

Boea, you're trying way too hard to apply logic to homestuck.

[Putnam]

Okay.

Tell me why you think LE/Doc put his curse into Cal after Caliborn did. Because Caliborn's curse is the only one that's been shown so far, and that curse has been shown to be working its magic on Gamzee and Jack.

Cal probably didn't come from anywhere at all. Plenty of stuff like that.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I personally suscribe to the theory that there is no beta-lil' cal, and that the one Dave grew up with is somehow the one Caliborn has with him at the moment, but in the future.

Don't ask how that would work. The little bastard doesn't make sense anyway.

You mean how Lil' Cal was raged into existence by Gamzee, was rocketboarded to the lab meteor, got sent back with Bro, got taken as a prize by Jack when he killed Bro, got thrown at an Aradiabot after his entry into the troll session, which then teleported into a meteor which landed on Alternia, was found by her living past self, who sent the Cal bits to Kanaya, who fixed him and gave him the Felt outfit, and then eventually he found his way into Gamzee's hands again, who watched the lab drop with him at the CRITICAL MOMENT, before the meteor with him on it went off on Furthest Ring Adventures, before going to the Alpha session, where he then sent it to Jack?

Jack could just give it back to Gamzee.

[Boea]

Moon logic only applies to a void of explicit/blatant cause and effect.

We used to not know what the dream bubbles were, or the Great Honk, Great Undoing, the Great Croak, what made First Guardians, and how the Story's Temporal Mechanics work.

Now we know what went into it, and the things related to these things to many stretches, what came of it, and can eliminate many possibilities with what we see long before, and after it.

Okay.

Tell me why you think LE/Doc put his curse into Cal after Caliborn did. Because Caliborn's curse is the only one that's been shown so far, and that curse has been shown to be working its magic on Gamzee and Jack.

Cal probably didn't come from anywhere at all. Plenty of stuff like that.

Cal came from the chucklevoodoo that Gamzee caste upon Dave for showing him heresay.
The rest is several rereckonings, and reentries accounting for probably decades at the very least, meeting with the characters: Dave [Derse-Clean], Rose, Bro [Beta], Dave again [Cleaned-NonDerse ==> Tattered], Dirk [Alpha, still in Derse Clothes, possibly Survived to Old Alpha Earth] , Sovereign Slayer [Repaired], Bec Noir, Doomed Aradiabot [Tattered Again], Aradia, Kanaya [Felt], Doc/LE, Gamzee, Jack English [Felt]. Caliborn [Derse-Dirtied, possibly Alpha, definitely not Felt].

And the only two places Dirtied-Derse Cal have occurred is with Bro or Dirk. Bro's Cal went on through the circle-jerk that included some years with Doc/LE.

Since LE is at least part Cherub, or Dominant Cherub, and shows characteristics of Caliborn [Leg, Tooth, Cheek Marks, Hate for Calliope nonspecifically, probably Time Powers, probably Zilly powers] then why can't LE possess Cal? That would make for certain that Jack English takes on his facade, AND powers.

[Putnam]

I'm saying tell me why you think LE is not the same person as Caliborn.

[frostshotgg]

No, Boea, you don't understand. This is homestuck. Logic doesn't apply. The only things we can take for absolute fact are things that we have seen for a fact. Cause and effect isn't a thing. 99% of homestuck is a red herring, and the other 17% is hussnasty.