Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

pudding

pops

[jaxy15]

The Just death was obviously revenge for going on a diet.

[JoshuaFH]

I will forever call bullshit on Vriska's Just death. You can argue that she killed Tavros, but everyone forgets that Tavros had explicitly made himself clear that he was going to attack and kill Vriska first. The fact that he completely lacked the ability to do so is irrelevant, and so is the fact that Vriska completely dominated all two seconds of the fight, Vriska was defending herself. It's also irrelevant that she killed who knows how many trolls before becoming god tier, since they happened before becoming god tier, and it's sort of unfair that she would start out as a god tier already so deeply in the negative karma that she effectively can't climb out. It's ALSO irrelevant that she was the catalyst to the creation of Bec Noir, because while she did do it whilst god tier, she was effectively trapped by the vague rules of paradox space, where Bec Noir traps them on the meteor, and then because of that, she continues on to do the things that creates him in the first place, thus ensuring her Just killing in the first place! That's BS!

And just because she would have inadvertently drawn Bec Noir to the meteor and caused everyone else's death is also irrelevant, because she hadn't actually done it, and was a possibility known only to Doc Scratch and Terezi. She is effectively being punished for doing something she hadn't done yet, just theoretically could have done. This is Minority ReportStuck.

The only thing I can think that's perfectly rational about her death, is that Slick hit the morality clock as it tick'd into Just, causing it to stop at an inopportune time and artificially ensuring her death. This would also explain the good Doc's rage at the having the rules of the universe toyed with by someone who has no business doing such.

and of course I know for a fact that there is an alternate doomed timeline where Slick decides to not do that, and Vriska is left alive...

Goddamn Hussie and Pseudo-Destiny.

/Irrelevant Denial

Also, I'm still wondering what the hell is with Squiddles, and the Doc's fixation on SBaHJ.

[Benevolence]

Alternatively, assuming the clock does have some sort of importance beyond simply showing, the clock itself is entirely irrelevant to the displayed player (Vriska) dying and only shows/determines what kind of death; that is, Slick smashing the clock has no bearing on whether Vriska dies or not, so he could smash it in every single time line and Vriska would be just as alive or dead as she was anyway as he smashes it. The only difference it might make, if it has any actual effect at all, is making her stay dead now that she's been killed.

Why would it be unfair to start God Tier with horrible karma? If your entire history is horrifically stained, then ascension would not necessarily change that... other things you list are also arguably not irrelevant at all.

[JoshuaFH]

I suppose I am not good at oblique jokes, where I'm in denial and thus using flawed logic for purposes of personal comfort.

Still, I'm not sure how one can determine how that can be Vriska's clock, versus anyone elses. Is there some iconography I'm not seeing?

[Benevolence]

It has the Sun symbol of Heroes of Light. It is presumably Vriska's, and not Rose's, due to both the place in the story and the fact the Just/Heroic thing is far less meaningful outside of God Tier death issues. The symbol also briefly flashes to an image of Vriska's dead, bleeding, hole-bearing body when Slick hits it.

[Diablous]

Still, I'm not sure how one can determine how that can be Vriska's clock, versus anyone elses. Is there some iconography I'm not seeing?

She's a hero of light and it has the light symbol on it's face. Plus, in the flash where Slick knocks it over, the face shows an image of her stab wound each time Slick strikes it.

[Duke 2.0]

The sun symbol is used for the heroes of Light. Since Rose isn't God-tier yet and in another universe it's presumed that clock belongs to the other hero of Light, Vriska.

 Although really, we know nothing.

 1. The clock could not land on any side and achieve a reading. It was destroyed with Crowbars crowbar, neutralizing any time powers it may have to predict/determine the type of death she had. We cannot determine if the hand stopped on Just, was just broken when the hand was over Just, or if it has any connection to her in any way after Spades hits it.

 2. Dead means nothing. Kanaya came back. Dreambubbles. It's entirely possible that she will still revive in a few moments. There is no real reason to believe that she just died for good.

[CJ1145]

And just because she would have inadvertently drawn Bec Noir to the meteor and caused everyone else's death is also irrelevant, because she hadn't actually done it, and was a possibility known only to Doc Scratch and Terezi. She is effectively being punished for doing something she hadn't done yet, just theoretically could have done. This is Minority ReportStuck.

Actually Terezi DID warn her and made it very clear that she had used her Seer powers and had seen that exactly that would happen. But Vriska was too BLUH at the time to believe her. Or rather, listen to her, because she's not so stupid that she wouldn't believe her.

[applesauce machine]

2. Dead means nothing. Kanaya came back. Dreambubbles. It's entirely possible that she will still revive in a few moments. There is no real reason to believe that she just died for good.

This has been established long ago in my mind. Whenever they die, it never feels like they even died to me. This is the only webcomic, or media in general for that matter, that this is true for.

Spoiler: Off-topic ramblings (click to show/hide)

Also, I'm still wondering what the hell is with Squiddles, and the Doc's fixation on SBaHJ.

My train of thought after reading this sentence:

Doc is related to Lil Cal, Lil Cal is related to irony ninja Dave, Dave is the creator of SBaHJ. Eh, I guess I'll make a SBaHJified Lil Cal if I can't find one within 2 minutes of Google image searching. (looking for pictures) Huh, now what is this? I hope it's what I think it is. I'll open it in a new tab and check it out when I'm done. (looking at a couple pages of images) ...Nothing. Screw it, I'll just image search "lil cal" to use as a reference to make one. It'll give me something to do. (found a reference) ...This'll do. Lemme go back and check that thing I opened... pff I knew it.

I haven't read it yet, but here is this SBaHJ ISG I inadvertently found.

I'm still making that Hella Cal (though it probably be crappily made, and not in the good way), but I'll wait until I have a post that I would make regardless of its existence, just like I did with this one. Man today is a slow day; not just in the forums, but in general. Today is nice because of this.

I also found this (see next spoiler).

Spoiler: Off-topic image appended to ramblings (click to show/hide)

[CJ1145]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I did another fight doodle, this one more directly related to canon.

[Soadreqm]

You can argue that she killed Tavros, but everyone forgets that Tavros had explicitly made himself clear that he was going to attack and kill Vriska first. The fact that he completely lacked the ability to do so is irrelevant, and so is the fact that Vriska completely dominated all two seconds of the fight, Vriska was defending herself.

What are you, a Texan? Vriska herself has admitted that she had no real reason to kill Tavros. He was in no way a threat to her. She could have disarmed him, she could have flown away, she could have not taunted him into attacking her in the first place. Vriska killing Tavros was premeditated murder.

Completely justified premeditated murder from a troll point of view, of course.

Spoiler: This next section of my post deals with weird time shit and is way too long. (click to show/hide)

As for the time hijinks with the creation of Bec Noir, I believe that Vriska had a choice there as well. If she hadn't been willing to create an unkillable endboss for herself to kill, the timeline where she did would never have come to pass.

This is all speculation on my part, but I really don't see how else it could go. There has been no instance in the story of a character learning of a future that he is forced to play out but doesn't want to. Dave's time loop shenanigans are completely in character, as are Karkat's endless arguments with himself. The players aren't forced to play out a predestined future, but the other way around. The future is what the players choose to make it, upon hearing about a future. Timelines that the players would be unwilling to bring about do not exist.

For example, consider a timeline where John, quite out of nowhere, decides to murder Jade. If John was to learn of it, would he go along with it, just to fulfill the time loop? If Jade was suddenly murdered by a time-traveling John, let's call him John-2, would John-1 feel compelled to travel back in time to murder Jade to complete the loop? If he didn't, what would happen? If he did, could he claim innocence, saying that he was forced to do it by predestination? Would John still be a likable character if he did it?

There hasn't been a single situation like this in the story, and I see no reason to assume that there even could be within the time travel mechanics provided. There is simply no situation where John would murder Jade for no reason, thus it does not happen. He has free will. To avoid a bad future, you simply need to be unwilling to play along, and the bad future will never exist to affect the past!

Thus, Vriska is fully responsible for creating Bec Noir. She didn't actually actively decide to, at any point in time, but she was willing to create him upon seeing that he had been created. Had Vriska refused to do it, Bec Noir would never have existed, and she would never have been given the choice she made in the other timelline.

Also of note is that both time players we have seen are very willing to follow a predestined path. Aradia as a robot ghost frog was slightly annoyed at having to take orders from herself to simultaneously orchestrate and bring about the final timeline, but she was still willing to do it. Dave had no problem whatsoever taking orders from Terezi to manage his stable time loops. When confronted by his sleeping time copy during the god tier gambit, he asked her what he was going to do, not wanting to actually make the choice himself.

[Qmarx]

I will forever call bullshit on Vriska's Just death. You can argue that she killed Tavros, but everyone forgets that Tavros had explicitly made himself clear that he was going to attack and kill Vriska first. The fact that he completely lacked the ability to do so is irrelevant, and so is the fact that Vriska completely dominated all two seconds of the fight, Vriska was defending herself.

After she explicitly asked him to stab her, and even said "hey, I'll even give you a free shot."

Vriska's a dick.

[CJ1145]

Vriska's a dick.

All other information is irrelevant. This is the end-all, be-all question and answer to life, the universe, and everything.

[Cthulhu]

Vriska's death was just because if Terezi hadn't killed her she would've gotten everyone killed.  She would've beaten Jack, but who cares?  She killed everyone else.

Nothing else factors into her death.

[Vertigon]

I have no Homestuck-loving friends on Facebook that I know of. A simple test would be to post something like "Homestuck: Apparently getting sucker-stabbed can kill a god after all" and seeing who likes it. Although I enjoy doing things like that simply for the confusion of people that don't know what I'm talking about >:D