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[Graknorke]

What? Where did you get that from?

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005760
Basically the same flash, going towards the same black-and-white faded out colours before outside interference.

[Elephant Parade]

Updoot.

Oh

POTATO!

[Darvi]

What? Where did you get that from?

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005760
Basically the same flash, going towards the same black-and-white faded out colours before outside interference.

Yes I know that. I'm talking about the conclusions you're coming to there.

[darklord92]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

......................... this is clearly not just or heroic  inb4 epic god tier revival?

edit:
forgot arbitrary: HUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

gosh darnit serket was nearly right before interference mnnn....

also, i guess we do have one hope of janes got tier power

[Baneling]

Wait, what? I thought everbody knew that Vriska had died because of the clock being broken.

And of course it went into just - it's a clock, it keeps ticking. The colour fading and stopping is because the character just died. I'm guessing Vriska revived, hence it moving, just before crowbar to the clock causing it to get stuck on Just and thus cause her to die.

And in this case I think it was just Aranea having ALL THE LUCK for things to just go perfectly for her.

[Darvi]

Wait, what? I thought everbody knew that Vriska had died because of the clock being broken.

That has never been firmly established, and intentionally been left ambiguous because Hussie likes people like you arguing over stuff like this.

[Trif]

Hussie answered this on Formspring back in the day:

Q: So, is the clock what official determines whether or not a God Tier player's death is just or heroic, or is it simply something that shows the outcome, much like a regular clock simply tells time, and does not hold any actually bearing on time?

A: The story provides no conclusive answer to this, and I personally cannot provide the scoop either. Not that I am withholding it to be coy, but to take my word for it one way or another would be missing the point. The destruction of the clock is another element among many for you to weigh when considering these events.

First, there's the consideration of whether her death was just, heroic, or neither. The clock appeared to be leaning toward "just", when it was interrupted by the crowbar. Maybe it would have landed there. Or if given the chance, maybe it would have swung back and settled somewhere else. We don't have a definitive ruling. All we know for sure is she's dead.

So we can conclude that either:

1) The clock itself has no bearing on her life directly, much as clocks merely measure time without influencing it. Which would mean if given the chance it definitely would have landed on either just or heroic, but not in the middle. The proof is her death.

or

2) The result of the clock does have direct bearing on her life, and by knocking the clock over so that it stuck on "just", Slick inadvertently killed her for good, regardless of where it may have landed. But to be fair, if he knew it was going to kill her, he might be hitting it harder. You could consider it delayed revenge for his exile, which Vriska and Snowman coordinated. It's safe to assume Slick would have found her death to be quite just, and may have been weighing in on the matter through circumstantial serendipity.

If 2) is true, there is another wrinkle to consider. Recall that the crowbar he is using (from the intermission) has the property of being able to nullify the effect of whatever "enchanted" object it destroys. If the clock's power is to decide whether she resurrects, then by destroying it, he eliminates that power. Since there's no longer a force enabling her to resurrect, she remains dead. This is another way to look at it, but again, only if the clock itself has that power over her life.

If not, then the destruction of the clock becomes more a violent gesture of punctuation to accompany this "divine ruling", like nails being driven into a coffin. Or, like a tolling bell. It's jarring, sudden, and carries finality.

If you are convinced her actions are what decided her death, and not the destruction of the clock, then you are left to consider what outcome is most suitable, without having an absolute ruling on it. The clock did appear to lean "just" an instant before, and there are plenty of ways to argue in favor of a just death. There are many mitigating factors as well to supply a counter argument. It would not be that interesting if it were absolutely unambiguous, where everyone could all easily agree that her death was just. Or if everyone agreed there was no justice in it at all. There are enough factors in play where you have reason to think about it a bit, and such that it leaves plenty to discuss. You may consider the evidence and draw a conclusion. You may even feel very strongly about your conclusion! But for either the story, or me, to provide a categorically "right answer", immediately following the establishment of all the things that made it interesting to consider, shortchanges all that, I believe. For the clock to settle unceremoniously on "just" I feel would come across as a nonconstructive, compact ethical lecture, quickly nullifying all there was to evaluate and talk about.

Was this comeuppance for all her past killing? For killing friends like Aradia and Tavros? Was there mitigation in her upbringing? In her remorse, and desire to change? Was it justice for insisting on playing a role in the creation of Jack so that she could beat him, to serve her ego? What of the ignored warning from Terezi? Flying off in spite of it, endangering them all, again in service of ego? What of the doomed timeline she creates by doing this? Is there justice alone in killing her to prevent not only the death of all her friends, but an offshoot reality that can only fail? Is human morality in play here? Troll morality?? Or is it a higher agency, like that permeating Skaia? In a framework of Skaian morality, is there justice in sacrificing one life to help ensure the creation of an entire universe? This paragraph has been a thumbnail sketch of all the discussion which has already taken place across the internet, minus all the notes ranging from fan fervor to outright dementia.

Of all the arguments to make, it's difficult to come up with a solid rationale for a heroic result. Most people debating it would choose between "just" or "not just", i.e. die or live. Note that this means those who believe her death was not just are in fact arguing that the destruction of the clock is actually what killed her!!! There is nothing in the story which rules this out.

Regardless, the result is the same. She's dead. Out of the story for good? Who knows. For now it's the culmination of a wide arc importing elements from classic tragedy. Blind seers, wanton hubris, unheeded warnings, regret and death. But with some MSPA twists. Systematized mortality conditions, doomed timeline offshoots, way too much dramatic irony, and Nic Cage.

She was always a polarizing character. Shouldn't be too surprising she's more polarizing than ever in death. It's almost as if that polarity was given concrete expression through the rules dictating whether she lived or died.

HM.

:::;)

[Descan]

Just so we're all clear, the clock -did- flash with the Spidereye, right? So Serket did interfere with the actual clock.

[FuzzyZergling]

Just so we're all clear, the clock -did- flash with the Spidereye, right? So Serket did interfere with the actual clock.

Yes.
Unless it's a metaphor.

[Darvi]

Precisely.

What I'm saying is, we can't do much other than reading stuff into it and I'd rather we wouldn't because that just means people being too busy to notice updates.

And by we I mean you, obviously.

[hops]

up fucking date

[Graknorke]

So why was Karkat getting all fuzzy before, but now Dave can communicate to others and hear them fine? I was under the impression that Karkat's blurred text was due to it being muffled, and he shouts all the time. So how could Rose in her normal voice be capable of penetrating that barrier of perfect pastel posterior?
Never before have I been so interested in the acoustics of foam puppet ass.

[hops]

So why was Karkat getting all fuzzy before, but now Dave can communicate to others and hear them fine? I was under the impression that Karkat's blurred text was due to it being muffled, and he shouts all the time. So how could Rose in her normal voice be capable of penetrating that barrier of perfect pastel posterior?
Never before have I been so interested in the acoustics of foam puppet ass.

maybe rose is using light powers?
idk.

[Guardian G.I.]

The MSPA website seems to be down. It's up again.

[Elephant Parade]

The MSPA website seems to be down. It's up again.

Yeah, it goes down a lot.