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[CJ1145]

For the record, the ancestor of Caliborn and Calliope is most likely... Caliborn. In case you forgot, Dirk and Roxy are literally just clones of Bro and Mom, who are in and of themselves clones of Bro and Mom.

[Putnam]

No, Dirk and Roxy are[/] Bro and Mom. The only difference is the time they ended up in.

[Urist Imiknorris]

The main point is that Bro and Mom are paradox clones of themselves, and thus so could Cal be a paradox clone of LE.

[Bauglir]

Right. Ectobiology does not necessitate that there be more than one Cherub body (IE two Cherubs, Caliborn and Calliope).

[Boea]

The main point is that Bro and Mom are paradox clones of themselves, and thus so could Cal be a paradox clone of LE.

Paradox Cloning Cast Members is a biconditional relation, which means LE [and his hypothetical other half] has to be the paradox clones of Calliborn, and Calliope for LE to be an actual paradox clone.

Most notably, LE has no discernible other half, unless you count Doc Scratch.
And LE is the ectobiological product of a Cue Ball, Felt!Cal, and 4 manuals, and a Tome.

Strider1 && Lalonde1 <==> Strider2 && Lalonde2 [as far as I recalled in that subarc]
Regardless that fact, the Calliope in question that later inspired her respective First Guardian!Self was from a doomed session, disregarding how strangely draconian the Comic Proper's Alpha Timeline is. [That is not to say that it wouldn't be a stone's throw to say that the Alpha Timeline is the only Timeline, considering how strangely exact it has to be to avoid dooming]

[GlyphGryph]

The main point is that Bro and Mom are paradox clones of themselves, and thus so could Cal be a paradox clone of LE.

He could be. Or maybe I've been thinking of this the wrong way. For the cherub cloning session (which there has to be at some point for cherubs to exist) we have two options:

Lord English is paradox cloned to produce Caliborn/Calliope, who then becomes LE. I don't see this as likely.

Lord English, the adult form, is a breeding clone, specifically the type that involves a code in addition to it's paradox sample. We know that Doc Scratch was, but we aren't sure whether or not Lord English was - he could have merely used Doc as a gateway to entering the universe, rather than having actually been created inside him. Still, it's possible.

Lord English is a mutant clone. He's not actually involved in the Paradox process directly. Like a breeding clone, but only requires one source. He could be a mutant clone of Caliborn/Calliope, assuming they only have one genetic code anyway.

Lord English is a proper breeding clone. He is what you get when you mix a paradox clone from Calliope and Caliborn.

Alternatively, Lord English could be a paradox clone of Lord English. The whole Calliope/Caliborn thing is a big ol' Red Herring. Rather, Calliope and Caliborn are breeding clones created from Lord English... somehow. Of course, there's nothing to mix Lord English WITH, so this doesn't seem to make much sense.

Regardless, we are going to need to have a Cherub ecto-biology session.

From what we've seen of his nature and abilities, I'm  leaning on him being a breeding clone of one sort or the other. Despite him clearly being dominated by a Caliborn-specific brand of behaviour....

Oh.

Oh fuck.

I think I fucking figured it out.

Guys, what do English's eyes look like?

Who else has now had eyes that looked like that?

What did it mean?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lord English isn't the bad guy. But Caliborn IS.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe, just maybe, Caliborn doesn't HAVE the ability to travel between realities.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What he DOES have is the ability to make ectoclones of himself and calliope...
and the ability to possess people, through his juju.

Lord English isn't the bad guy. He's not even a real lord. He's just... a puppet, dancing on a string.

Wilder spec:
He might even be replaceable! He might have been made multiple times! And killing him, well... it might not accomplish anything at all.

[Boea]

Spoiler: More or less it (click to show/hide)

The main point is that Bro and Mom are paradox clones of themselves, and thus so could Cal be a paradox clone of LE.

He could be. Or maybe I've been thinking of this the wrong way. For the cherub cloning session (which there has to be at some point for cherubs to exist) we have two options:

Lord English is paradox cloned to produce Caliborn/Calliope, who then becomes LE. I don't see this as likely.
Wasn't even Paradox Cloned, more like Metapmorphed caused by ectobiological program triggered by the death of the universe. [In Doc's Intermission, it was the Great Undoing, and the the Birth of a Demon, or LE]

Lord English, the adult form, is a breeding clone, specifically the type that involves a code in addition to it's paradox sample. We know that Doc Scratch was, but we aren't sure whether or not Lord English was - he could have merely used Doc as a gateway to entering the universe, rather than having actually been created inside him. Still, it's possible.
Seems unlikely, you'd need to remove Felt!Cal's and the First Guardian's Phenotypes to get a viable cloning, unless, miraculously, Calliope is generated, and Caliborn is a mutant because he isn't silly-eyed, and omnipotent

Lord English is a mutant clone. He's not actually involved in the Paradox process directly. Like a breeding clone, but only requires one source. He could be a mutant clone of Caliborn/Calliope, assuming they only have one genetic code anyway.
LE isn't even a clone.

Lord English is a proper breeding clone. He is what you get when you mix a paradox clone from Calliope and Caliborn.

Alternatively, Lord English could be a paradox clone of Lord English. The whole Calliope/Caliborn thing is a big ol' Red Herring. Rather, Calliope and Caliborn are breeding clones created from Lord English... somehow. Of course, there's nothing to mix Lord English WITH, so this doesn't seem to make much sense. [Read: RED]

Regardless, we are going to need to have a Cherub ecto-biology session.
Generally ectobiology needs about three things, two iterations of something at the very least, and the two said iterations not being not so graphically differentiated, and their generation is biconditional.
Item One isn't a Contested Item, but Calliope is ex nihilo if we use LE as the second iteration
Item Two is a Consistently Observed Item, Calliope miraculously appearing, and Caliborn losing the Felt Motif, and the First Guardianship is a horrendous mutation
Item Three is an Item that has only been directly seen with the Humans, at the very least, the Iterations/Targets used in the Cloning Process are Non-Doomed

From what we've seen of his nature and abilities, I'm  leaning on him being a breeding clone of one sort or the other. Despite him clearly being dominated by a Caliborn-specific brand of behaviour....

Oh.

Oh fuck.

I think I fucking figured it out.

Guys, what do English's eyes look like?
Lord English's

Who else has now had eyes that looked like that?
Jack English

What did it mean?
Jack English is possessed by Lord English

Lord English isn't the bad guy. But Caliborn IS.
As much as Terezi killed John [it was neccesary to create Davesprite] Vriska doing whatever [neccesary for half the Alternian Cast, and Several Major Occurances of the Comic Proper's Timeline staying Alpha] .


Maybe, just maybe, Caliborn doesn't HAVE the ability to travel between realities.
Being a First Guardian, and the compilation of the Felt does help with that

What he DOES have is the ability to make ectoclones of himself and calliope...
and the ability to possess people, through his juju.
Cal wasn't even his juju

Lord English isn't the bad guy. He's not even a real lord. He's just... a puppet, dancing on a string.
Caliborn's an unwitting Lord, LE has been shown to have more influence on everything

Wilder spec:
He might even be replaceable! He might have been made multiple times! And killing him, well... it might not accomplish anything at all.
If the Comic Proper is Cyclic, then it's inconsequential.

[Slayerhero90]

I'm wondering if the Muse of Time makes all paths lead to the same victory, as long as she stays alive in the originally destined main timeline.

[penguinofhonor]

I don't think Caliborn/LE has anything to do with paradox clones.

[Putnam]

I'm pretty sure that the Cherubs were ecto'd from themself (they share a body, remember?)  and LE is Caliborn.

[Urist Imiknorris]

What he DOES have is the ability to make ectoclones of himself and calliope...
and the ability to possess people, through his juju.

Cal wasn't even his juju

He was going to make Cal his juju.

[Boea]

He traded Cal for Sebastian, so the point would be moot, at best.

[Darvi]

Wait what no he didn't.

[Boea]

Now which Cal is that?

[Putnam]

Lil' Cal. He has both. Seb is just kinda... there, Caliborn's never really done anything with him.