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[Sensei]

Quite technically, I'm pretty sure that discrimination is judging someone by a group they came from, usually before having any other evidence towards that judgment. If the group for sure (not just usually) always follows an attribute (EG: Retards are stupid) then I gueeeessssss that discrimination is technically correct. IMO, better usually not to judge a book by its cover.

My personally poise on religious arguments is that all religious parties are basically choosing to forgo logic and that's the point, thus religion would never hold in a court of law. Anyway, they will never convince each other. Since I'm here, I believe in unicorns and you can't prove me wrong.

Back on topic, if the atoms in a puddle happened to bond into amino acids and cascaded into life from there (basically the evolution/scientific origin theory as I have it) I don't see how that is mutually exclusive to creation. At this time we don't really understand atoms or where they came from, so you could attribute that to religion, but once upon a time people attributed lightning to religion so it's entirely possible that anyone who says god 'created' atoms now could be proved wrong later. At any rate, I figure that if you're changing anything in a religion aside from interpretation (especially how other people stand in regards to what your religion tells you) then you've proved that you're either choosing now or were choosing to believe for fact something that was wrong or made-up. It can only be concluded that what you believe in now will be changed later to be found wrong, or what you believe that was not the original belief is wrong. At any rate, your principals mean nothing.

...at any rate, any reason for people to be good to each other has a place in society, I suppose.

Also, inb4 god is an alien. Don't even.

[Rilder]

I get the feeling that this thread is starting to get (or already is) full of people who would rather try to act edgy and troll the place up than actually discuss anything reasonably.

I'm not acting edgy I'm trying to lighten the mood up.

[G-Flex]

My personally poise on religious arguments is that all religious parties are basically choosing to forgo logic and that's the point, thus religion would never hold in a court of law. Anyway, they will never convince each other. Since I'm here, I believe in unicorns and you can't prove me wrong.

The thing is that a lot of atheists put just as little thought into things as the religious, or (dis)believe what they for just as irrational reasons.

I'm not acting edgy I'm trying to lighten the mood up.

By acting sort of obnoxious and not contributing to discussion, I guess. Then again, I wasn't referring solely to you, so... yeah.

[Chutney]

Not to mention you can't whine about discrimination till your a minority.

Oh well I'm all set then. Gogo Judaism!

I'm going to have to invoke Godwin's Law here, and say that apparently Broose doesn't believe Hitler was bigotted towards Jewish people, because Judaism is just a religion, and you can't discriminate against a religion.

Let's say there is a guy that believes in a religion that has a rule where he has to set himself on fire every Wednesday. I think it would make sense to call that guy, and everyone else in that religion, a total fucking dumbass.

You will not be prepared when aliens with wildly different cultures to ours. They come down, start lighting themselves on fire and you call one of them a fucking dumbass. You just started an intergalactic war.

Try to be more sensitive to other peoples world views, man.

[Rilder]

You will not be prepared when aliens with wildly different cultures to ours. They come down, start lighting themselves on fire and you call one of them a fucking dumbass. You just started an intergalactic war.

This is how I expect first contact with an alien race to go, the aliens requiring a baby to be sacrificed to open negotiations, our negotiators saying, "screw that" and it all ending with a week long orbital bombardment.

[Leafsnail]

I'm going to have to invoke Godwin's Law here, and say that apparently Broose doesn't believe Hitler was bigotted towards Jewish people, because Judaism is just a religion, and you can't discriminate against a religion.

Actually, due to the mother's line rule, Jews are not just a religion but also a race (there has been a news story in the UK in recent weeks about a Jewish faith school that refused someone entry because they weren't a genetic Jew.  This was deemed illegal racial discrimination).  And murdering people is kind of a crime in its own right, isn't it?  I don't think what he did was bad because it was bigoted, I think that what he did was bad was that he killed 60 million people.  It doesn't matter whether he did it in a bigoted or random way, it's still an evil act.

You will not be prepared when aliens with wildly different cultures to ours. They come down, start lighting themselves on fire and you call one of them a fucking dumbass. You just started an intergalactic war.

Creatures who did that would never be able to invent intergalactic travel (they'd set all their fuel on fire, for one thing) so I think we're safe from that.  Unless, of course, the aliens didn't have digestive systems and actually had to set themselves on fire to absorb nutrients.  Now that would be cool.

Anyway, I don't think all religious people, even those who take it literally, are morons.  It's perfectly possible to be sane and intelligant, and yet still not apply the logic to one area of your life.  That does not, however, make them any more correct.

[Muz]

Meh, I skipped all the deliberate flame posts.

Evolution doesn't oppose creationism. I believe strongly in evolution, but I find a few million years highly inadequate for a human to evolve from a single cell organism. Even a billion years is pushing it far for a cell to involve into a monkey, unless mutation rates were extreme somewhere early in the gene pool.

So, yeah, they could both exist. With what little evidence we have now, it's plausible that God could have created monkeys a few million years ago, which accidentally evolved into humans. Then to cover up His mistake, He never mentioned that we used to be monkeys.

[G-Flex]

Meh, I skipped all the deliberate flame posts.

Evolution doesn't oppose creationism. I believe strongly in evolution, but I find a few million years highly inadequate for a human to evolve from a single cell organism. Even a billion years is pushing it far for a cell to involve into a monkey, unless mutation rates were extreme somewhere early in the gene pool.

So, yeah, they could both exist. With what little evidence we have now, it's plausible that God could have created monkeys a few million years ago, which accidentally evolved into humans. Then to cover up His mistake, He never mentioned that we used to be monkeys.

Except the actual evidence available points to humans sharing a common ancestor with monkeys in the first place.

Oh, and the first known fossils of microbe-like things are 3.5 billion years old, not one billion. And yes, that's a hell of a lot of time. Enough, really.

[Leafsnail]

Evolution doesn't oppose creationism. I believe strongly in evolution, but I find a few million years highly inadequate for a human to evolve from a single cell organism. Even a billion years is pushing it far for a cell to involve into a monkey, unless mutation rates were extreme somewhere early in the gene pool.

It's not "a few million years" 3.5 billion years is 3500 million years.  A lot of time.  If you put it as a day, humans wouldn't've come in until the very last second.  A billion years is a difficult amount of time for us to imagine, since we only live for about a century even if we're lucky, but suffice to say it's an amazingly long time.  Bacteria, such as the early ones, could easily manage several generations a week (many more probably).  You'd see hundreds of generations a year, and 10s of 1000s a decade.  There's certainly no shortage of time by any measure.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

I'd give my logic here,
But I'm tired enough, heh.

[Jude]

Meh, I skipped all the deliberate flame posts.

Evolution doesn't oppose creationism. I believe strongly in evolution, but I find a few million years highly inadequate for a human to evolve from a single cell organism. Even a billion years is pushing it far for a cell to involve into a monkey, unless mutation rates were extreme somewhere early in the gene pool.

So, yeah, they could both exist. With what little evidence we have now, it's plausible that God could have created monkeys a few million years ago, which accidentally evolved into humans. Then to cover up His mistake, He never mentioned that we used to be monkeys.

wow

the school system has failed us

[ChairmanPoo]

A lot of time.

Time is an uncountable noun. Your argument is invalid.

[Zai]

This will most likely hopefully be the last time I reply in here.

Let's say there is a guy that believes in a religion that has a rule where he has to set himself on fire every Wednesday. I think it would make sense to call that guy, and everyone else in that religion, a total fucking dumbass. Now, if I think that Christianity is stupid (and I do), then it is not discrimination to call every single Christian a dumbass, because they believe in it. Discrimination is when you judge people by something they did not choose, like gender or race.

This is so wrong it's disgusting. This, Jude, is where the school system has failed us.

treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

[ChairmanPoo]

Beware traveller: The high road is not without its perils.

[Chutney]

Beware traveller: The high road is not without its perils.

Again, you seem to be saying that we're doing something wrong for disliking discrimination. I don't understand, do you LIKE discrimination? Do you think nobody should bother fighting against it or what?