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[Free Beer]

A thought just occurred to me. Kashyyk and eduren aren't voting. If even one of them is town, then we have just lost, since the mafia can tie the vote.

Therefore, Kashyyk and eduren, I intend to vote one of you if you haven't voted by the time dakarian responds to my questions.

[dakarian]

Because I can't read ToonyMan. He's anti-Town as town and scum.

Also, dakarian, your analysis is fallacious for someone who really hates fallacies. You say anyone who attacks anyone can't be partners, but that's simply dumb. Scum can do whatever they want.

The thing is with that statement: once you give scum 100% reign to do ANYTHING, you hit yourself with a WIFOM.

Example:  Web is choosing Eduren because he thinks hs scum

But "That's what he wants us to think".   He's actually choosing me first in a Lynch of Lose so his theory on Eduren would never be tested.

The entire reasoning behind scum tells is twofold:

1. Although scum know they NEED to avoid showing themselves off, they tend to fail in some way.

2. If the scum truely, TRUELY worked Pro-town along side the town, they'd lose since they'd ferret themselves out.

At some point, the mafia would HAVE to break from the town.  Their goal is to make the break so small that no one wouuld really notice.


For example. although we do know that mafia will bus one another, why in the world would someone take their partner, who no one is even considering seriously for scum, and drag their name through the mud to the point of a near lynch?  That's Crazy talk and a major major risk of failure.  In the end, Mafia people can't gamble and can't give or take bets..not really.

Is it POSSIBLE for the Mafia to decide "Ok, we'll just jump in and kill you out of nowhere, then I stand to be the hero"?  I guess, but now you're second guessing everything at that point and EVERYONE looks guilty, since "That's what scum can do!" 


Thus why Vector went off the list of scum.  Web took someone no one cared about in Day 1 and made him a big suspect, then continued it Day 2.  I skipped over a Web lynch in order to go after Vector and Jim and made a BIG deal there.  Vector invited Eduren into the spotlight on day 2 by saying that he was worse looking than Web.  Free Beer managed to jump ahead of everyone day 2 and target Vector first before everyone else went nuts on him.
[/quote]
So, how does that reasoning remain 'bad'?

Also, dakarian, I believe the scum team to be you and eduren. Especially with your little "Oh, that can't be the team" statement.

You Bus teammates that were going to die anyway so that you can make some gains from it and hopefully hide the link between the two of you.  CREATING a bandwagon to GET your teammate killed is crazier than a mafia screaming "LYNCH ME!" when 4 people suspect you scum (Web, Jim, Toony, and Vector).  Had all who suspected voted, it would've been an easy majority.  Web, I remember you declared the "Four townies" theory based on that, which is what lead you to look at others.

You seemed willing to believe I was town on Day 2 when I made that bet, but now you swear I'm guilty.  Exactly what do you think was my thinking behind my bet?  Remember, 4 people thought I could be scum.  At one point, I had 3 people pledging to vote for me and Jim was after one more.  If you had ANY thought that I could be scum, why didn't you become that fourth?  Under what grounds would I would have ANY thought that I would be safe from dying?  What's more, how would that help Eduren if he was my partner?  He bandwagoned in, daring Jim in the process.  Had I died scum, it would give full credit to Jim and do nothing to help Eduren.  Can you really think that I would be able to guess that Jim would hedge and you wouldn't get involved? 


Besides, you can't just say "I think your scum because you removed the Dak/Eduren combo."  I gave a REASON for it.  To kill my argument, you need to destroy that REASON.  I said that I had turned a very low risk lynch for Eduren, skipped over more agreeable attacks like Org or Toony, and WoTed him into a near death situation.  If you want to claim "bluff since you pulled out before the lynch" then you assume I'm not bussing, but then WHY would I put Eduren into that situation when going after ANYONE ELSE would've done better?  It wouldn't have been much for another to join in after my vote and finish the lynch. Meanwhile, if I was bussing him, WHY would I pull out?  Why not press him until he dies?

So explain my actions on Day 1 if Eduren and me were teamed. 

Also, I was talking to someone else when I said don't kick out dakarian. It's funny because you actually left yourself in, making your town comment moot, and basically copying me.

I stole the ENTIRE 'group up' list from you, not just the comment.  I was about to do my scan when I saw it and went "oooo cool idea".  I noticed that some people are still suspecting me so, for full discloser, I made the second group with my name in it.

I thought that copying was a scum tell when it's copying of other people's accusations, not stealing a list of names. 

Just so everyone knows, the scum team is indeed dakarian/eduren.

It's now incredibly simple to see.

To sum up:

1. Scum CAN attack their teammates, but only the insane will bring someone hidden and pull them into high suspect.  The main times when scum attack themselves is either when they know it won't lead to anything serious or when they are bussing someone already suspect. 

I put Vector out since he's broken that concept with everyone: either someone brought him into the light or he brought someone else. 

Sidenote: Me having that theory for considering Vector as town is MUCH better than your "For some reason, I feel like Vector is town,"  mess.  Yes, we both come to the same conclusions, but no explanations for your actions doesn't look as well.

2. Your reasoning for the Eduren/me combo is just because I said no to it?  You'll need to explain my Day 1 actions then.

Sidenote: from you: "eduren, who I keep passing up because I stop making him a threat".  You're passing him up AGAIN, and in a Lynch or lose.  You prevented the Eduren lynch bandwagon YOU started the second Eduren was at risk to lynch, and you go after the person who made the lynching vote! 

So if you think Eduren an me are linked..then funny that because with me thinking Kashyyk is town and Free Beer is more pro-town than you or Eduren, that leaves me to think that it's you, Web, and Eduren that's the pair. 

Well, we're both voting for Eduren, so he'll be dead in due time.  As such, we just have to decide whether you bussed him or I did.


3. It was copied since it was interesting and useful.  That CAN'T be the main argument to lynch me, can it?




In answer to Free Beer:

-Given that I ended up being the hammer to Org's lynch, I can understand. 
-You did it in response to my Bet IIRC.  By how it looked, you believed me town and decided to kill the 'scum' rather than the townie.
-Web kept dodging Vector's questions in Day 2, which made him look bad. 
-You technically did buy into it.  Remember the whole "if I'm town, declare it.  If I'you even suspect I'm scum vote me".  You did the former and went after my target, first Vector, then Jim. 
-Felt so legitimate that I had to question you when you pulled away at the last minute.  You've since explained your reasonings, complete with a good "If I was mafia, I would've gained more if I did something else" idea, which I'm finding is a good way to tell who's town at this point.  The actions, including the explanations, is why you're leaning town at the moment.


Btw, good point with the risk of a tie there.  Gotta watch for that.  We can't no lynch this game.

[dakarian]

Web, before you say "what you did Day 1 I did Day 2", I notice that now, although I could argue that I pulled out after Eduren made his defense that convinced me, while you decided to go kill of Toonyman, even when you believed that Eduren was scum..even though Toony gave you the votes needed to lynch Eduren. 

I mean jeesh you go heavy on Eduren, you get the votes needed to kill him, then when Toony gave you that vote "...He's been pressured quite a bit by me and a few others today... I'm just sick of your anti-towniness. "

So you Switched from a positive lynch to a TIE VOTE situation because toony didn't acknoledge your argument?  You almost didn't even CARE if he was town since he was So Unhelpful...even though that death leads us to a lynch or die.

No matter how much you hate how the Kook looks, it's still bad for the town to lynch him.  That's why I don't go after people who are mearly being 'unhelpful', since it quickly leads to exactly what you said: townies killing townies till the mafia wins.  YES, you thought he was mafia, but you skipped out a guaranteed lynch for a TIE, especially when you could've just killed Eduren then and finished off Toon later. 

Jeesh, I was supposed to agree that me you both did similar before I wrote that blob o text above.  Now it doesn't look similar at all.

[Free Beer]

Right. Questioning you isn't getting anywhere, dakarian. If you're scum it's because either you or your scumbuddy sees what I am doing and you want to hide it; if you're town it's because you don't want to think before you answer. So I'm just going to come right out and say it:

I thought that copying was a scum tell when it's copying of other people's accusations, not stealing a list of names.

This is exactly what you did.

-When I threatened to hammer Org on Day One, I cited the fact that he did not vote. You then proceeded to switch to Org... because he didn't vote.
-When I asked Vector to "compare Jim's actions with his own," your next post detailed how Jim and Vector had more or less the same move list.
-You initially voted Jim but then switched to Vector for frivolous reasons. A likely explanation was that Vector already had votes on him.
-When I refused to buy into your plan on Day Two, I stated that "we'd be better off just voting Jim now," in regards to your "lynch you" plan. You then proceeded to switch your target from Vector to Jim.
-When I voted Jim Groovester on Day Two, I cited numerous reasons why he should be lynched. I also listed a few more over the course of my argument with him. You incorporated a few of these in your final accusation when you decided to keep your vote on Jim.

The fact is, you've been stealing other people's ideas for the entire game. My question as to whether my actions could reasonably have been yours was supposed to highlight this, but you ignored it.

Also, you didn't really answer why you're voting eduren specifically. The fact that eduren is the only two man bandwagon right now, and has been for the last 24 hours, makes me really suspicious.

I'm thinking it's webadict/dakarian.
-On Day Two, after the town had separated into the Jim/Vector and webadict/dakarian camps, webadict came forward and tried to split the vote up by advancing his "these four people are town" theory.
-When I asked dakarian about webadict's "four people are town" theory, dakarian kept trying to say it was right. The fact that both webadict and dakarian were part of those people has not escaped notice.
-When I asked dakarian questions about other people's opinions of webadict, dakarian was evasive. He was making excuses as to how the parties in question could be wrong, rather than trying to understand the motives behind the opinions.
-dakarian only ever voted webadict very briefly, despite having FoS'd webadict numerous times.
-Did webadict ever vote dakarian? If he did, it was for such a short time that I don't remember it.
-webadict overreacted when I mentioned that I was thinking about webadict/dakarian earlier in the day.
-Above mentioned two man bandwagon.
-With the exception of Jim Groovester, dakarian has been either last or second-to-last on every single bandwagon he has ever participated in.
-As mentioned above, dakarian has been stealing ideas.
-webadict himself also acted like scum: First he tried to get everyone to think he was the Cop, then when Jim called him on it he tried to get everyone to think he was the Doctor. He later backpedaled and tried to get everyone to think he was a normal townsperson.
-webadict tied the vote against eduren. I'm guessing dakarian stepped in since nobody else was hammering Org, and an intentional tie would look even worse than a bad lynch. I threatened to do it, but stopped short.

Anyway... Unvote.

Kashyyk and eduren, if you are reading this, VOTE! Vote for who you think is scum. If you can't decide, use a d4 - if you are town, you'll have a 50/50 chance of hitting scum. IF YOU DO NOT VOTE THEN THE TOWN WILL LOSE!

I'll switch over to dakarian or webadict later in the day, depending on how the votes fall. If the votes ever fall.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Kashyyk: Free Beer
eduren: dakarian, webadict


Day will close somewhere around 5pm Pacific today. Might be a bit later, as I'm wrapping up an early morning maintenance here at work (3am-11am...ugg) and am going to go home and sleep. I'll probably be awake by 5, but I make no promises.

[Kashyyk]

Okay, Free Beer. I am here now.

Right, because both Webadict and I disagree on who the second scum is, I'm going to vote for the one we agree on. Eduren.

[Free Beer]

Not what I was hoping for.

Whatever. Unvote. Vote webadict.

Here's hoping the town experiences a fit of sanity.

[Eduren]

Okay, Ill vote webadict.

[Servant Corps]

2. If the scum truely, TRUELY worked Pro-town along side the town, they'd lose since they'd ferret themselves out.

[OOC: That's silly. Scum can quite easily root out incredibly scummy people. They won't actually be scummy, but you don't have to be scum to give off scum tells. They won't root themselves out, but they'll root out likely suspects, and will apologize if everyone they vote for flip Town ("Well they were acting Scummy, so it was fine by me").]

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
eduren: Kashyyk, dakarian, webadict
webadict: Free Beer, eduren


  You grab eduren and drag him outside. He struggles as you string the rope around his neck, but he's no match for the rest of you. He's swinging from the rope in short order, and once he's stopped kicking you cut him down. You search his stuff, and it looks like he's just a normal townsperson.

  As you turn and look at each other, Free Beer and Kashyyk pull out guns from under their coats. "Well, now, this has all been a fun diversion." says Free Beer, "but if you gents will excuse us, I've got a town to run." He motions to Kashyyk, "Kashyyk, take care of these two, will ya?"

"Yeah, boss, sure thing. These townsfolk won't bother you any more, I promise." says the Mafia Goon, as Free Beer the Mafia Godfather walks over to his car. With a few gunshots, the mafia's control of the town is assured.



Ok, game is over! Good job Mafia, you guys did a superb job! And good job all around, this is one of the better games I've run, I think.

Here are the links to the Mafia Chat and Dead Chat.

Chaoticjosh, Pandarsenic, Alexhans, did you guys still want to do rundowns of the game?

[ToonyMan]

Do'h.  Dood.

Sorry webadict.  I only suspected Free Beer a little.  I didn't even suspect Vector/Kashyyk.

[JoshuaFH]

To be honest, I didn't pay as much attention to the game as I should have, but I've skimmed over pretty much all of it, and I'll just give a little generalization of everyone:

Webadict did a good job leading everyone with his particular brand of zeal, and although he was wrong in the end, he was a good example for everyone.

Eduren and Dakarian are VERY VERY promising mafia players. They analyze things, and let their thoughts be heard. The problem comes where they OVER-analyse things, such that it diludes their judgement.

The group as a whole should have been harder on the side-players, rather than focusing on the most vocal ones. I think this is why mafiosos Kashyyk and Freebeer managed to succeed like they did.

[webadict]

Dang it eduren! Why didn't you even try to defend yourself?!?

[ToonyMan]

Maybe scum had a brain doctor?  They can brain wash one person during the game.

[Free Beer]

I KNEW they were scum. I knew it ALL ALONG!