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Author Topic: Beginners Mafia - Game over!  (Read 73506 times)

dakarian

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #510 on: August 11, 2009, 11:20:19 am »

I'll accept an extension as well.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #511 on: August 11, 2009, 11:21:40 am »

The exchange begins here.

You've only said, "I feel better about you now," to ToonyMan, and ToonyMan alone. Everyone else you've either questioned or accused.

And I don't really feel like getting into a giant wall of text war right now, when there's so little time in the day. I feel it's pointless anyway to try and convince you that I'm not guilty. You seem dead set on it. If I posted another giant wall of text, you would just post another one, and then declare, "Why won't you defend yourself?"

Do you disagree, Free Beer?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #512 on: August 11, 2009, 11:24:49 am »

The Whiteboard
Free Beer: Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester: Free Beer, dakarian
eduren: webadict
webadict: ToonyMan



Currently, the day ends in about half an hour. If we can get another vote for an extension, though, I'll push it to 5pm Pacific.
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Free Beer

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #513 on: August 11, 2009, 11:33:01 am »

The exchange begins here.

You've only said, "I feel better about you now," to ToonyMan, and ToonyMan alone. Everyone else you've either questioned or accused.

And I don't really feel like getting into a giant wall of text war right now, when there's so little time in the day. I feel it's pointless anyway to try and convince you that I'm not guilty. You seem dead set on it. If I posted another giant wall of text, you would just post another one, and then declare, "Why won't you defend yourself?"

Do you disagree, Free Beer?

I said that to ToonyMan after he answered my questions and explained his actions sufficiently. I was backing down from having formally accused him and calling for his lynching.

If I accused Vector and he explained himself to the point where I was satisfied, I'd have done the same thing. It never got to that point.

Thanks to the extension, we've got another seven hours. I'm waiting. If you can conjure a consistent story that explains your actions and motives in a way that makes you seem town, I'll back off just like how I backed off of ToonyMan. I am willing to bet that you can't.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #514 on: August 11, 2009, 11:38:36 am »

This mafia keeps twisting and turning.  One second we're lynching someone and then all of a sudden we're lynching someone else.

I vote an extension.

I'm thinking about unvoting webadict.  I'm not sure what he is playing now.  Yeah, let me do this.

Unvote.

Vote eduren.  eduren doesn't seem to be getting pressured this day.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #515 on: August 11, 2009, 11:40:26 am »

Ok, since we got 3 votes for a day extension, the day will now end ~5pm Pacific tonight.
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Vector

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #516 on: August 11, 2009, 11:48:16 am »

All right.  I really have to go now, and am going to be unable to be here for the rest of the day.

So, for reasons that should be obvious by now, I'm voting eduren.  I suspected him on Day One, and I still suspect him today.  And, for anyone who is going to try to get me lynched while I'm gone: I'm not climbing on a bandwagon, I just have no time.  So yes, I'm going for the "obvious" lynch.  This is because I have no time left to question anyone, so am voting like the day is about to end.

I actually cannot believe that you said this.  I thought you were foolish before, but this takes both the cake and the entire fishing rod.  Webadict and dakarian have already explained why this is dumb, so I'll let their words stand rather than repeat them.  However, I don't understand why you didn't take the standard approach: why not convince the rest of us to off Jim first?  We all know you're capable of your own walls of text--in your own defense, anyway.

You kidding? The last time I actively pursued someone I thought scum, I lost all credibility! To be honest I wasn't reading as closely as I should've. I ended up going with the flow and believing the mafia pros!

Once again the only thing Im guilty of is bad townsmanship!

You didn't lose all credibility because of that.  You lost credibility because after your Heel Face Turn (check TVTropes if you don't understand), you went back to your old ferrety ways.

Vector, there is no conditional voting in this mafia, so you'll have to pick someone.

I'm sorry about that--I heard otherwise from someone else.


Anyway, if I'm allowed back in the game, I'll return on Saturday.  Otherwise, Happy Mafia to everyone!
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ToonyMan

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #517 on: August 11, 2009, 11:49:46 am »

We need sub.
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dakarian

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #518 on: August 11, 2009, 11:52:22 am »

Comparing the last few WoTs with Toonyman:

Free declared his argument against Toonyman.  Toony agreed that it was sillly but provided a reason why he did what he did. 

You're dismissing some of the arguments in your current defense. 

You hint that it was Web that got you convinced over Org instead of just saying you believed him guilty.

You don't see why Defending others is problematic, even though we keep talking about "who is this person with"

The whole thing I keep bringing up with you and the Bet came up again.

And then you OMGUS him.  Attacking your accuser doesn't look well.


Every time you defend one point, you do something to make yourself look worse.  That's why the spotlight hasn't left you yet.  So far, everyone else who defends you just keeps saying "Look at that pereson over there".  Web hasn't filled in the gaps well enough and Vector's given up on explaining your actions.


Fake edit:  Well, good to see the extension, but my hour is up.  I'm off to work now and I won't be back till 2am EST (11pm Pacific).  That means my vote won't be able to change from here.  Given what I've seen so far, I have no reason to do so.  I can understand pressuring others, but don't forget about Jim.  As for Eduren, the argument seems to be on his he handled my Bet.  I stated my reasons why I can see Townie Eduren doing it.
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What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!

webadict

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #519 on: August 11, 2009, 12:00:50 pm »

@ web: refering to Vector and you defending Jim?

Theory:

Vector had no prior reason to suspect Jim. That, along with the defense against your attack would cause Vector to feel better about Jim. 

Remember, the theory I threw was that Jim would Bus Web, causing Jim to be the hero.  Risky, but had I not jumped in, it would've been VERY effective, especially with Townie Vector vouching for it all.  We were suspecting Web long before anything else showed up.  Had Vector been lynched, it would've been a win for mafia, since it would fully 'certify' Jim.  Why would a scum defend a townie after all?

Eduren seems willing to follow the flow for the most part.  Why would he go after me instead of Jim when he was willing to go after Vector?  Because Jim kept swearing "there wasn't enough votes".  Eduren was calling JIM's bluff.  As such, I don't see it as enough to mark him, especially compared to others.
To pretend to be a Townie? That's what scum try to do. Blend in.

Comparing the last few WoTs with Toonyman:

Free declared his argument against Toonyman.  Toony agreed that it was sillly but provided a reason why he did what he did. 

You're dismissing some of the arguments in your current defense. 

You hint that it was Web that got you convinced over Org instead of just saying you believed him guilty.

You don't see why Defending others is problematic, even though we keep talking about "who is this person with"

The whole thing I keep bringing up with you and the Bet came up again.

And then you OMGUS him.  Attacking your accuser doesn't look well.


Every time you defend one point, you do something to make yourself look worse.  That's why the spotlight hasn't left you yet.  So far, everyone else who defends you just keeps saying "Look at that pereson over there".  Web hasn't filled in the gaps well enough and Vector's given up on explaining your actions.


Fake edit:  Well, good to see the extension, but my hour is up.  I'm off to work now and I won't be back till 2am EST (11pm Pacific).  That means my vote won't be able to change from here.  Given what I've seen so far, I have no reason to do so.  I can understand pressuring others, but don't forget about Jim.  As for Eduren, the argument seems to be on his he handled my Bet.  I stated my reasons why I can see Townie Eduren doing it.
eduren has excuses, but none of them add up to anything.

No, I'm afraid I can't vote eduren anymore, since I really have to vote ToonyMan now. I can't let him live.

This mafia keeps twisting and turning.  One second we're lynching someone and then all of a sudden we're lynching someone else.

I vote an extension.

I'm thinking about unvoting webadict.  I'm not sure what he is playing now.  Yeah, let me do this.

Unvote.

Vote eduren.  eduren doesn't seem to be getting pressured this day.
...He's been pressured quite a bit by me and a few others today... I'm just sick of your anti-towniness. You're NEVER HELPFUL and I feel like you're acting like Time Travel Mafia.

I wouldn't feel so bad about lynching you if you were, you know, helpful. Or contributing. Or explaining. OR DOING SOMETHING!

Explain how you've helped the Town today?

Also, I'll be back in about two hours.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2- Sub needed for Vector (wed-sat)
« Reply #520 on: August 11, 2009, 12:03:14 pm »

Haha.  You post more garbage than me webadict.  You were the one to vote eduren first and then you vote me for voting him?  Odd.  I'm thinking you're scum again.  I should stick to it too.  But I cannot because of some sort of OMGUS rule or someother.

Unvote.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2- Sub needed for Vector (wed-sat)
« Reply #521 on: August 11, 2009, 12:04:01 pm »

As for helping town, if I can get a lynch on you that's one less scum.  That's good right?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2- Sub found
« Reply #522 on: August 11, 2009, 01:06:44 pm »

Kashyyk will be taking over for Vector until he gets back. Thanks Kashyyk!

(I hope you've been reading along, because there is a TON of stuff to go through)
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #523 on: August 11, 2009, 01:33:08 pm »

Why not? We know Org is town now. Are you not willing to take responsibility for your prior actions? It would certainly be consistent with your behavior now.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Obviously lynching Org was a mistake, because he was innocent after all, but I can't lie about the steps I took to voting for him. Blatant dishonesty would be an even bigger scum tell than everything else you accuse me of.

Then why did you bother to jump in? You would have no reason to do so unless you thought you were involved. If my post was unclear to one of the people I was addressing, they would have called me on it.

Are you seriously jumping down my throat because I asked you to clarify something? Why would I have been remotely worried about you suspecting me at that point? You didn't voice any suspicions towards me.

You said I was very jumpy during Day 1. If I was jumpy, wouldn't I have flipped out when BloodBeard voted me at the beginning? Why would I jump at that particular ambiguous comment instead of BloodBeard's accusation?

It's not crap, it's buddying, which is another scum tell. You'll notice that buddying figured prominently in my accusation of BloodBeard as well.

And you'll notice that BloodBeard was innocent. Are you proud of this? You were obviously wrong about him. Are you sure you're not wrong here? Maybe buddying isn't a scum tell, especially if you're dealing with newbies who haven't read the mafia wiki front to back.

You're related to both webadict and Vector, at the same time, whether you like it or not. You aren't two different people. My logic is very simple:

If webadict is scum, I'm 60% sure you're the other scum.
If Vector is scum, I'm 90% sure you're the other scum.
If Vector is scum, I'm 90% sure webadict is not scum.
If webadict is scum, I'm 90% sure Vector is not scum.

All of the above can be discerned immediately from my questioning of Vector. The evidence is all there.

All of these together push you to the top of my suspect list.

Can you explain why webadict is defending you? Can you explain why he only came down on you lightly, while he came down on Vector hardcore? If you're both scum there is an obvious reason why.

Can you explain why you are defending Vector and he is accepting the defense? If you're both scum then there is an obvious reason why.

I thought I just answered all of this? If you're going to repeat yourself, we're not going to get anywhere.

I don't know why webadict is defending me. From what I can tell, he's not. The most he said about me was that I might not be scum.

And I already told you why I defended Vector. I think he's innocent. He accepted my defense because any defense is welcome reprieve from the hammering he was getting.

Yes, it's stupid. That's why I am not buying into the "lynch dakrian now to prove he's town!" plan. But he would have no reason to do it if he were scum, and if he were town then that means he has some reason for wanting you dead so badly.

Maybe he's stupid. You said his plan is stupid, why not extend it to the person who suggested the plan?

In this game, there's always somebody who wants somebody else dead, so why are you willing to believe dakarian for this reason?

The only way to call dakarian if he is bluffing is to LYNCH HIM, not try to get everyone else to lynch him while you sit back safe in your little cubbyhole. Grow a pair already.

Indeed, the only way to call his bluff was to lynch him. Not just vote for him. I needed other votes to do that.

I already explained why I am hesitant to give my opinions at the beginning of Day Two. It causes people to clam up and OMGUS me instead of continuing to explain themselves. I want people to explain themselves. As previously noted, I was giving my opinions on Day One.

Caution. Is it still a scum tell even if you're trying to gather information? I think it is. You're being sneaky, and deliberately avoiding suspicion by deliberately withholding your suspicions. You're trying to fly under the radar, and that's scummy.

It's pretty funny that you accuse me of being a coward while you've admitted to deliberately hiding.

I was first on Vector, thank you very much. I was also first and only on BloodBeard, and first on ToonyMan.

At the time I left Vector to attack you, Vector had three people on him while you only had one. That's, like, the opposite of bandwagoning. And webadict jumped off Vector at approximately the same time that I did. Are you even paying attention?

So you were. Was your vote to get Vector talking, like mine on eduren was? That's what I figured it was. Did you change your mind after webadict accused Vector? I figure that's what you did.

Congratulations on being the one and only person to openly accuse our dear innocent BloodBeard! I don't know why you're touting this as an accomplishment.

You changed your vote after dakarian made his vote against me. Still bandwagony. You leapt off the Vector train after you saw that it was losing steam.

If I were scum and webadict were not scum, I'd kill webadict. His credibility was completely shot after he led the town on an Org lynch, and there was zero chance he'd be protected by the Doctor. He'd also be a huge threat to the mafia if he were town, doubly so if he were the Cop.

If I both I and webadict were scum, I'd kill ToonyMan or eduren. As previously noted, mafia often choose people based on who they suspect, so I'd go after someone who suspects webadict as a WIFOM.

Hold on, if webadict were the Cop, wouldn't that make him the obvious choice for Doctor protection? And if he is such a huge threat, wouldn't that still make him a pretty good choice for Doctor protection? He made that implicit tell of his. Are you mad you didn't pick up on it?

And why would you kill ToonyMan or eduren if you want their deaths to lead to webadict? ToonyMan suspected the both of them as scum, so that makes some sense. But why eduren? He voted for ToonyMan, and his death would lead directly back to ToonyMan. Aren't there better targets to cause suspicion on webadict, like dakarian, who openly accused him, even though he withdrew his accusation, or myself, because I was starting to suspect him at that point, too?

So you're saying you're confused and you're just going to OMGUS me? How quaint. Wasn't that what got us all on Vector in the first place?

I won't let you marginalize my argument by saying that it's only a reaction to your accusation of me. Not all OMGUSes are wild backlashes. You've skated by unscrutinized. That's reason enough to accuse you.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Beginners Mafia - Day 2- Sub found
« Reply #524 on: August 11, 2009, 01:41:08 pm »

I'm going to go to sleep for an hour or two. This game kept me up all night, I was thinking so much about it.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.
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