Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Why won't my gnomes use tools?  (Read 1472 times)

Chutney

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« on: July 26, 2009, 04:57:38 pm »
So I decided to give the little nudists a try in fortress mode, they're basically dwarves but without metal working and size 3. There are some other differences but I don't think that would lead to the problem.

The problem is, the gnomes refuse to chop trees and mine. They've done every other job I've asked of them, except dig or chop! What's wrong?

Creature
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Entity
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

thanks in advance!
Logged

snuflufagus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2009, 05:01:06 pm »
You need to mod your weapons to have at least a minimum size of 3 to match your gnome size, otherwise they'll be too big for their puny hands.
Logged

snuflufagus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2009, 05:03:17 pm »
And if you want them to use shields, you'll probably also want to lower the two_handed value as well.
Logged

snuflufagus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2009, 05:05:10 pm »
Or not.  A two foot short sword may be just as long as a gnome is tall.
Logged

Sensei

  • Bay Watcher
  • Haven't tried coffee crisps.
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2009, 06:48:30 pm »
Heh, make "very short sword"s. :)
Logged
Let's Play: Automation! Bay 12 Motor Company Buy the 1950 Urist Wagon for just $4500! Safety features optional.
The Bay 12 & Mates Discord Join now! Voice/text chat and play games with other Bay12'ers!
Add me on Steam: [DFC] Sensei

Chutney

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2009, 08:43:34 pm »
Oh, I didn't realize tools had size values too. My bad! Can I make those adjustments without a regen? I assume if I'm only editing tags. but will that severely gimp other races if they only have tiny weapons?

This is probably gonna take a regen :(
Logged

Atlas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Supertitanly Tough
    • View Profile
    • Rideo- Latin For Lol
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 11:10:06 pm »
Quote from: Chutney on July 26, 2009, 08:43:34 pm
Oh, I didn't realize tools had size values too. My bad! Can I make those adjustments without a regen? I assume if I'm only editing tags. but will that severely gimp other races if they only have tiny weapons?

This is probably gonna take a regen :(

srsly man, it shouldn't gimp them...


I do hope random raccoons start carrying these swords, though...
Logged
Quote from: dornbeast on April 06, 2009, 05:00:43 pm
Urist Austin, Axedwarf.  A dwarf barely alive.  Gentledwarves, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic dwarf. Urist Austin will be that dwarf. Better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.

Sensei

  • Bay Watcher
  • Haven't tried coffee crisps.
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2009, 02:01:14 am »
Making the weapon smaller ONLY effects who can wield it. Making them "smaller" will make your gnomes able to use them, and possibly other races to dual wield them (someone correct me?), but that's it.
Logged
Let's Play: Automation! Bay 12 Motor Company Buy the 1950 Urist Wagon for just $4500! Safety features optional.
The Bay 12 & Mates Discord Join now! Voice/text chat and play games with other Bay12'ers!
Add me on Steam: [DFC] Sensei

sunshaker

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 10:08:58 am »
Quote from: Chutney on July 26, 2009, 04:57:38 pm
So I decided to give the little nudists a try in fortress mode, they're basically dwarves but without metal working and size 3. There are some other differences but I don't think that would lead to the problem.

The problem is, the gnomes refuse to chop trees and mine. They've done every other job I've asked of them, except dig or chop! What's wrong?

In addition to the size problem I have to ask if you have modified picks and axes to be made from wood or stone? Without metal working I can't see how you would be able to build said tools (unless you have them using low metals or I'm missing something), if you can't make a pick then you have nothing to dig with, if you can't make an axe you have nothing to cut wood with.
Logged

snuflufagus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 05:37:51 pm »
Value changes to most existing entries in the raws shouldn't require a regen.  Only those that affect worldgen will require it (biomes and entities).

You can try putting [CAN_STONE] onto your picks and add [SHARP] to some more stones to better balance out play for the gnomes.  Flint and chert come to mind immediately as relatively sharp stones (although perhaps not up to the task of cutting other stone), but perhaps something like a fine grained basalt would be more appropriate (the stone of choice for carving giant Easter Island heads).

Alternately, you could allow gnomes metalworking skills but give their entity the [MINOR_METAL] tag to limit them to copper, but I've never tried that with a player civ before, so I'm not sure if it would work or not.

Another option could be designing a smelter reaction to turn some type of stone directly into a pick...
Logged

Chutney

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 05:58:10 pm »
Quote from: snuflufagus on July 27, 2009, 05:37:51 pm
Value changes to most existing entries in the raws shouldn't require a regen.  Only those that affect worldgen will require it (biomes and entities).

You can try putting [CAN_STONE] onto your picks and add [SHARP] to some more stones to better balance out play for the gnomes.  Flint and chert come to mind immediately as relatively sharp stones (although perhaps not up to the task of cutting other stone), but perhaps something like a fine grained basalt would be more appropriate (the stone of choice for carving giant Easter Island heads).

Alternately, you could allow gnomes metalworking skills but give their entity the [MINOR_METAL] tag to limit them to copper, but I've never tried that with a player civ before, so I'm not sure if it would work or not.

Another option could be designing a smelter reaction to turn some type of stone directly into a pick...
Thanks for the advice. I made flint and chert [SHARP], but because I started off with 2 picks, and wanna make it a little harder on myself, made it so they can't make any more. I might try giving them [MINOR_METAL] a little later, for science!
Plus it does make sense, at least the way I see gnomes (That is, little cousins of the dwarves, who would have learned SOME metal working from their kin)
Thanks for the help all!


edit: Never...EVER... embark as gnomes on the site of another gnomish civilization....Gnomes apparently hate stegosaurs with a passion and will drag your poor 7 into conflicts they CANNOT WIN.
Dead Stegosauri: 18 (8 named, 1 named and titled)
Dead Gnomes: 26 (1 mine) + 1 stray dog :(
Surviving Stegosauri: 4 (2 named)

Note: Gnomes can still use armor etc, so most of those dead gnomes are wearing full suits of -iron- armor and wielding *+=iron maces=+*.  The mayor is all supermountain gnomely stats and is currently lying in a pool of his own blood, vomit and chunks after trancing against a single stegosaurus...

edit2:Oh no....Duck-Billed dinosaurs....
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 08:28:57 pm by Chutney »
Logged

snuflufagus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 01:19:38 am »
Wow, the gnomes are doing pretty well against the dumbest of the dinosaurs.  I imagine their little gnomish armor can't be much thicker than aluminum foil to suit their tiny frames.  Maybe the stegosaurs are swallowing them down as metallic gizzard stones then dying from complications of defecation?

...wait a minute.  How are non-metal-working gnomes wearing iron armor?
Logged

Mohreb el Yasim

  • Bay Watcher
  • ♫♪♫♫♪♫♪♪♫♪
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 01:17:11 pm »
Quote from: Sensei on July 26, 2009, 06:48:30 pm
Heh, make "very short sword"s. :)
You could call it Dagger for example ...
Logged
Mohreb el Yasim


GENERATION 24:The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experime

Chutney

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 01:56:43 pm »
Quote from: snuflufagus on July 28, 2009, 01:19:38 am
...wait a minute.  How are non-metal-working gnomes wearing iron armor?
I don't know. I'm assuming that I messed up a tag somewhere and guards are still world-genned with iron. Maybe they stole it all from goblins?

I figured if I left all the armor tokens but dropped the metal tags they'd just wear leather armor, but apparently thats not enough to keep them from obtaining iron stuff. High quality iron stuff.
Anyone know how to keep this from happening?

PS: Duck-billed dinosaurs are HERDS OF MEGABEASTS compared to gnomes. A single duck-billed dinosaur has killed 11 gnomes by itself. Mine have luckily moved deep underground...

edit: Stegosaurs, when attacking with their tail, have 1:6 damage. they also have a secondary kick attack for 10:15. Duck-billed dinosaurs have only a 10:15 kick attack...
I LOVE THIS DINOSAUR MOD!!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 02:00:16 pm by Chutney »
Logged

XD!

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dabbling modder.
    • View Profile
Re: Why won't my gnomes use tools?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 02:56:51 am »
Quote from: Mohreb el Yasim on July 28, 2009, 01:17:11 pm
Quote from: Sensei on July 26, 2009, 06:48:30 pm
Heh, make "very short sword"s. :)
You could call it Dagger for example ...
But it doesn't have the same ring to it.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
« previous next »