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[Granite26]

There's really no real excuse for cloth shoes. If you want to make sandals with wood or something but real comfortable shoes should invariably be leather

History fail

[Grendus]

Bolts and arrows would be made out of wood or reeds and tipped with different materials. Bone and rock tips wouldn't be reusable but metal ones would be. Shafts wouldn't shatter as readily and ranged weapon mechanics would need to be fixed to lower the requirement for ammo to more reasonable levels

My only real objection here is that making shafts for arrows/bolts out of wood was a bad idea for anything except hunting, and reed was even worse. For war, metal was used for both shaft and tip, except at stone-age technology.

http://web.mit.edu/21h.416/www/militarytechnology/arrows.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow

Unless you have a fairly reputable source for metal shafts, I think you're wrong.

[LegoLord]

While yes, it is a bit too easy to buy out caravans, I might also remind you that it is done largely with stacks of food; that industry is planned on being fleshed out and nerfed.  I might also remind you that in the time scale of the game, making an item at a forge already takes a couple days of non-stop labor, unless skill is high enough.  But even then, all the materials must be hauled to the workshop, which can also take time, if only because the stockpile ran out of supplies from lack of room.

With the food exploit gone buying out caravans will still be laughably easy. Not on the first year of course but still very doable. Especially when offloading 200k worth of syrup on a caravan doesn't immediately get you 10 wagons in year 2

Yes, we previously mentioned solving that with more realistic supply & demand, rather than making things take even longer when they already take awhile on their own time scale (which by the way might boost FPS but things would be getting done more slowly so it wouldn't really make much difference in every other aspect of the game that does not involve trading, making it more annoying than anything).

[Pilsu]

History fail

Yeah, you can technically make shoes out of cloth but they wear quick and don't really protect your feet like real shoes do. We already have socks, we don't need cloth shoes. Especially seeing the main reason to have them would be the ease of manufacturing

If you must include them, shoes would need more types than just "shoe". What are your historical examples called anyway?

[Granite26]

European Link  don't forget pattens...
chopines are also wooden

I've seen reports of shoes made of beads (unconfirmed) and you know how crazy asian cultures could get (lotus shoes).

[Felblood]

I knew a girl who once paid a hundred dollars for a pair of wood and cloth shoes, that would disintegrate if they ever got wet.

People make shoes out of all kinds of stupid things. Hopefully item degradation will make cloth shoes suitably stupid for anyone who doesn't spend all day sitting at his desk.

[Pilsu]

Uh, I did mention wood as a shoe component earlier. Hardly counts as a "cloth shoe" though

As for Felblood,  seems pretty silly to me to include purposefully bad shoes in the game but whatever I guess


What kind of subtypes of shoes should the game include and what climates would they be for? The game should disallow certain materials too depending on climate, for instance leather boots aren't equal to fur boots. Optimally though you should be able to make anything you want and the dwarves themselves would choose their clothes intelligently, wearing nothing if the alternative is too hot

[forsaken1111]

Uh, I did mention wood as a shoe component earlier. Hardly counts as a "cloth shoe" though

As for Felblood,  seems pretty silly to me to include purposefully bad shoes in the game but whatever I guess

Well you can make silver weapons, which are purposefully bad but we've found a use for them as training weapons... go figure.

[Lord Shonus]

Bolts and arrows would be made out of wood or reeds and tipped with different materials. Bone and rock tips wouldn't be reusable but metal ones would be. Shafts wouldn't shatter as readily and ranged weapon mechanics would need to be fixed to lower the requirement for ammo to more reasonable levels

My only real objection here is that making shafts for arrows/bolts out of wood was a bad idea for anything except hunting, and reed was even worse. For war, metal was used for both shaft and tip, except at stone-age technology.

http://web.mit.edu/21h.416/www/militarytechnology/arrows.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow

Unless you have a fairly reputable source for metal shafts, I think you're wrong.

Unfortunately, my sources are in books, so I can't provide you with links. The one I'm most familiar with is Montross's War through the Ages, while the various biographies of Hannibal and Cesar I've read include analysys of the superiority of Bronze arrow shafts to ones of wood.
As for Bolts, the other thread on this subject has dozens of examples of metal shafts.

[Granite26]

I'm willing to give you metal bolts....   Arrows, I'm a little wary of...

[forsaken1111]

Bolts and arrows would be made out of wood or reeds and tipped with different materials. Bone and rock tips wouldn't be reusable but metal ones would be. Shafts wouldn't shatter as readily and ranged weapon mechanics would need to be fixed to lower the requirement for ammo to more reasonable levels

My only real objection here is that making shafts for arrows/bolts out of wood was a bad idea for anything except hunting, and reed was even worse. For war, metal was used for both shaft and tip, except at stone-age technology.

http://web.mit.edu/21h.416/www/militarytechnology/arrows.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow

Unless you have a fairly reputable source for metal shafts, I think you're wrong.

Unfortunately, my sources are in books, so I can't provide you with links. The one I'm most familiar with is Montross's War through the Ages, while the various biographies of Hannibal and Cesar I've read include analysys of the superiority of Bronze arrow shafts to ones of wood.
As for Bolts, the other thread on this subject has dozens of examples of metal shafts.

Certainly they are superior, but they are not as easy to make. For example I highly doubt english longbowmen had all the metal arrows they needed for an entire battle, that seems prohibitively expensive for a weapon expected to only hit about 1 in 10 shots. Each longbowmen on the field generally had about 75 arrows, which was enough for perhaps 5 minutes of continuous firing.

Then again, this is dwarf fortress where we make rediculously complicated schemes to drop entire human villages into the depths.

[Grendus]

Bolts and arrows would be made out of wood or reeds and tipped with different materials. Bone and rock tips wouldn't be reusable but metal ones would be. Shafts wouldn't shatter as readily and ranged weapon mechanics would need to be fixed to lower the requirement for ammo to more reasonable levels

My only real objection here is that making shafts for arrows/bolts out of wood was a bad idea for anything except hunting, and reed was even worse. For war, metal was used for both shaft and tip, except at stone-age technology.

http://web.mit.edu/21h.416/www/militarytechnology/arrows.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow

Unless you have a fairly reputable source for metal shafts, I think you're wrong.

Unfortunately, my sources are in books, so I can't provide you with links. The one I'm most familiar with is Montross's War through the Ages, while the various biographies of Hannibal and Cesar I've read include analysys of the superiority of Bronze arrow shafts to ones of wood.
As for Bolts, the other thread on this subject has dozens of examples of metal shafts.

I'd be willing to accept metal shafts, but history is also fairly heavy with examples of wooden shafts. Perhaps untipped arrows could do damage based on the material, and then gain more damage via what they're tipped with. Players who want damn powerful crossbow bolts could make bolts with steel shafts and tips while players who are looking for more of a strafing style of ranged combat could arm half a dozen dwarves with wood and achieve similar effects through raw numbers.

[Pilsu]

A high quality launcher with properly tipped wooden bolts or arrows would probably provide good armor piercing in itself without need for heavy ammo

We'd need to know why metal shafts were considered better, not just blindly include them and make them deal X% more damage. For instance, did the romans aim for armor piercing or making shields get more cumbersome? I'm interested in how such an arrow would behave as well, wooden arrows are pretty wobbly in flight. All the examples seem to be made of bronze, not iron. It probably isn't a coincidence. Then there's the matter of whether range suffers and how much


Apparently a silk undershirt won't tear when hit with an arrow, facilitating easier arrow removal

[Granite26]

Heavier = more inertia = better piercing and more damage.  The question is, can a crossbow impart more energy to a heavier object (I'd say yes).

[Rowanas]

Pilsu, the silk undergarments also prevented infection. I only know a little bit about arrows and bolts, but ancient weaponry is something of a geeky hobby of mine. Bronze was used because it is heavy and cheaper than other metals. Arrows made with bronze were far shorter in range than their wooden counterparts but also less likely to break upon impact, making a bronze arrow useable over and over, while a wooden one might snap after hitting three or four times at the most. Bronze also reduced the wobble of an arrow in flight, making it more accurate but more likely to snap (this was balanced by the natural strength of the metal). Metal shafts are also easier to construct than wooden ones and require less skill to make, so many could be made in a shorter period of time.