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[lodester]

I am writing to help validate some of the wiki statements and some other statements I've read in threads here.

1. On a suitable biome/block a sapling may be spawned and takes variably ~1.5 years to grow in to a harvestable tree
Question:any insight in to what determines a sapling to take root in a tile, or the timing of when this is determined?

2. Traffic can trample saplings
Question: What do folks find is better, setting outdoor traffic lanes or forbidding sapling tiles?

3. I have read here before that if a clay/sand area is cleared of trees AND the layer below is either rock or emply (dug-out) the trees will not grow back. I think this is incorrect information, but is there any bearing on tree growth by digging out tiles a z-level below them?

4. Does anyone know the requirements/restrictions to create your own underground pool for a dwarf-made TC-farm? Is it possible to drain several surface pools of water to make an underground pool for this, or must it be fresh water like from a brook or river?

Many thanks in advance for your help!
-lode

[smjjames]

1: It seems to just require some kind of soil type. I've had trees and saplings grow under channeled out areas open to the air.

2: No idea, and you can forbid saplings? Didn't know that....

3: I've had this happen before, like when trees grow on the ground above the entrance tunnel.

4: Since you only require a discovered UG pool or river and some muddied tiles, it should theoretically work.

[Derakon]

1. Whether saplings take root depends on local water availability. Toady's stated that there's a water table that saplings and bushes pull from; among other things, this means that bushes interfere with sapling growth and saplings won't grow adjacent to each other.

2. You can't forbid squares, but you can make dwarves avoid them if at all possible. Setting up a high-traffic lane would work fairly well unless saplings sprang up in that lane (at which point they'd get promptly trampled). So it depends on how badly you want every possible sapling to survive.

3. No idea.

4. To get towercaps, you must have a natural underground river or underground pool. That's because the trigger that enables towercaps is the message "You have discovered an underground (river|pool)". Dwarfmade water sources moved underground don't count.

[lodester]

Thanks for the fast replies. I guess i'm all set with perhaps any other comments regarding item #3

cheers

[smjjames]

1. Whether saplings take root depends on local water availability. Toady's stated that there's a water table that saplings and bushes pull from; among other things, this means that bushes interfere with sapling growth and saplings won't grow adjacent to each other.

The salinity doesn't come into play either, I've had trees grow close enough to the beach that any groundwater would be salty. The only salt resistant trees ingame are Mangroves, Palms, Saguaros (they are hardy desert dwellers anyway), and possibly Willows.

The thing with the UG rivers/pools has to do with the spores of the plants which are found in those features as you have to release them.

[XSI]

1. I'm not sure on the aboveground trees(I just cut those down), but I've had a small drainage channel in my current fort that has towercap saplings for over 6 years now, and only one out of about 20 of them grew to be big enough to harvest. There are also a lot of shrubs.

2. I do not forbid anything outside(Waste of time with the seemingly random growth), but an eventual towercap farm will have a single tile wide paved road, with 2 tile wide trees/shrubarea in between roads, like exploratory mining, but with wood. I plan to have the growing areas all set as restricted and the roads as high, so dwarves will only walk on the plants if they need what is in that tile.

3. trees can grow 1z below their normal starting level when the ground is channelled, but I only know this with another layer of soil below the first(No idea on rock), and it was a small, short-lived fort, so I don't know a lot on this part.

4. As soon as the message of finding underground water(River/pool) has been shown, any water used to make muddy ground(Underground) will be able to grow towercaps, this includes the channels made for getting fresh, aboveground brook water into a cistern, I have found myself ordering blocking towercaps to be cut down several times. These will still display the ~ from water, and you need to use k or every now and then designate all your channels for having trees cut down.

In short, any underground mud will do after you got the message.

[Hyndis]

If you want to have a lumber farm you will have to periodically clear out shrubs.

Plants can only grow to a certain density, depending on climate. If you have a ton of shrubs they will block out trees.

So if you harvest only trees without harvesting shrubs, eventually your farm will be entirely shrubs.

However if you harvest only shrubs while leaving the tree alone for several years, you will have quite a few trees.

[RexMundi]

semi-relvent but insetd of tower caps, cant you just channel a big area and cover with floor and grow regular trees?

[XSI]

Trees will not grow on floors you build, or on top of any constructions as far as I know(I may be wrong, but in general they won't grow on your rock/wood/metal flooring, which makes a road/floor over an area a good way to keep a caravan path clear)

[Derakon]

You can make recessed outdoor growing areas by removing the ceiling. But you can't stack such farms, and since they're open-air, they aren't as dwarfy.

[dogstile]

i've always thought the best way to do a farm is to have 1 tile wide roads (so trees can't grow on them) with rows of restricted soil tiles

[lodester]

Yeah, i think i am going to try sticking with my original plan, which sounds similar to the one mentioned above. Pave a 1xtile row, with 1xtile paths for harvesting.

Code: [Select]

----------R----------
ttttttttttRtttttttttt
ttttttttttRtttttttttt
----------R----------
ttttttttttRtttttttttt
ttttttttttRtttttttttt
----------R----------

R = paved road, high traffic
t = farm plot, low traffic
- = harvesing path, high traffic

[Jim Groovester]

3. I have read here before that if a clay/sand area is cleared of trees AND the layer below is either rock or emply (dug-out) the trees will not grow back. I think this is incorrect information, but is there any bearing on tree growth by digging out tiles a z-level below them?

This is not incorrect information. Trees will not grow on areas that have a solid layer of rock beneath them. I can confirm this.

In regards to having an empty layer below, this I'm unsure of. My recollection says... yes, trees can grow like that, though I don't want to trust my recollection on this. Maybe somebody else can give a more certain answer.

[Xort]

I have a map with a underground river on lets say z level 5. By chance that is also my effective ground level. In soil tiles on level 5 I have tree and shrub growth. On z level 4, which has huge areas of soil I have many large 13x13 plots without a single growth. z level 4 is a waterfall on the cave river. I'm going to test if having water on the z level is the trigger.

The cave river runs of the map on z level 2, however that level is all stone, so I'm also going to test if mudy rock is still effective for triggering growth.

I suspect that any indoor growable tile that has either a cave pool water or cave river water tile on the same z level triggers growth.

[lodester]

3. I have read here before that if a clay/sand area is cleared of trees AND the layer below is either rock or emply (dug-out) the trees will not grow back. I think this is incorrect information, but is there any bearing on tree growth by digging out tiles a z-level below them?

This is not incorrect information. Trees will not grow on areas that have a solid layer of rock beneath them. I can confirm this.

I want to be clear on this, as my initial reaction is "well how did they grow in the first place?" but regardless:

z-0 = sand/clay with trees
z-1 = Limestone

You're saying if i chop down the trees they will not grow back?

In regards to having an empty layer below, this I'm unsure of. My recollection says... yes, trees can grow like that, though I don't want to trust my recollection on this. Maybe somebody else can give a more certain answer.

Using my illustration above, this means if i tunneled out the limestone, tree re/growth would be a workaround (assuming your recollection is confirmed) ?