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Author Topic: Sparring injuries.  (Read 1396 times)

Skorpion

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Sparring injuries.
« on: July 25, 2009, 02:37:59 pm »

Is there any way to prevent them without giving the trainees armour (the fortress guard aren't on the front lines and so don't take up precious steel) or crappy weapons (they refuse to drop them and insist on charging goblins armed with a wooden stick)?

What causes them?
Which weapons cause less of them?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 02:52:29 pm by Skorpion »
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The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

Derakon

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2009, 03:20:29 pm »

Sparring injuries are caused by dwarves failing a skill roll when sparring that determines if they make a "real" attack or a "fake" attack (both give experience, but fake attacks can't deal damage). The more skilled the dwarf is, the less likely they are to accidentally make real attacks, but the more likely they are to be stronger and thus deal significant damage if they do screw up.

Wrestling rarely causes severe injuries and is thus generally safe for sparring. Everything else depends on the weapons being used. Some people obsess over using wooden or silver weapons because they deal 50% damage compared to iron. Generally I've not had problems with dwarves dying once they've made it past a season or two's worth of sparring, and since my new soldiers are picked from the migrants, I never really have a chance to get attached to the ones that die. It's strongly recommended to have your soldiers start out with wrestling, though; it trains incredibly quickly and gives a major boost to the ability to dodge.
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riffraffselbow

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2009, 03:50:50 pm »

Sparring injuries are caused by dwarves failing a skill roll when sparring that determines if they make a "real" attack or a "fake" attack (both give experience, but fake attacks can't deal damage). The more skilled the dwarf is, the less likely they are to accidentally make real attacks, but the more likely they are to be stronger and thus deal significant damage if they do screw up.

Wrestling rarely causes severe injuries and is thus generally safe for sparring. Everything else depends on the weapons being used. Some people obsess over using wooden or silver weapons because they deal 50% damage compared to iron. Generally I've not had problems with dwarves dying once they've made it past a season or two's worth of sparring, and since my new soldiers are picked from the migrants, I never really have a chance to get attached to the ones that die. It's strongly recommended to have your soldiers start out with wrestling, though; it trains incredibly quickly and gives a major boost to the ability to dodge.
Not to mention that a legendary wrestler who is also a legendary axedwarf has potentially twice the "attribute boosts" (strong, tough, agile).
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"And God saw that the world was too moist, and that none of the Scorpion race could be placed upon it; and so he started over."

Grendus

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2009, 03:54:46 pm »

It takes four steel bars to cover your dwarves head and chest, which are the only organs where lethal damage can occur. Four more will deck them out in leggings, gloves, boots, and shield. If you can't afford steel, even copper plate is decent protection (though I'd strongly suggest using copper or wooden/silver weapons for training without ferrous armor).

Don't be afraid to arm and armor your dwarves with less than steel if you don't have it. Iron armor of anything higher than base quality is better than almost anything the trade caravans bring. Bronze only needs to be superior or higher to equal or trump base quality steel. If you don't embark with a decently skilled armorsmith, you may want to reevaluate your starting build.
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Skorpion

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2009, 04:40:20 pm »

The actual military has exceptional/masterwork steel chain and plate, along with weapons and shields. The injuries are occuring on the unarmed, unarmoured fortress and royal guard, because I'm too cheap to give them equipment.

I lose an average of two a year to sparring champions. It's annoying more than anything.
Logged
The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

Derakon

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2009, 05:18:52 pm »

Make the guard crossbowdwarves, and instead of wasting your coffins they'll waste your bolts.
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Shrike

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 07:00:12 pm »

I've found giving every guard and recruit leather armor and a shield has practically dropped my sparring injuries to zero, even when I start giving them weapons.
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dragon0421

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2009, 07:15:16 pm »

I've found giving every guard and recruit leather armor and a shield has practically dropped my sparring injuries to zero, even when I start giving them weapons.

I second this. Before I got my steel industry up and running, my military just wore leather armor. The worst injuries I got were minor injuries that have no real effect other than small blood splatters. I prefer giving them silver weapons though.
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PaperJack

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2009, 07:26:47 pm »

I have two armories: One filled with wooden bucklers and weapons and the other with iron and steel weapons.
When I want my troopers to spar, I block the door with the steel weapons and unlock the one with the wooden ones, and when there are enemies I do the reverse.
Wooden weapons overall suck and so they dont get hurt
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Judas Maccabeus

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 07:40:12 pm »

I always armor up my guard dwarves like a turtle, but mostly for the sake of it seeming dwarfy.  If plain iron is less dear than steel, that'd work fine to keep them safe while sparring; if not, I suppose you'd have to make sure everyone who would spar is set to wrestling and hope for the best.
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I'm talking about the bronze colossus. It's supposed to be made entirely of bronze.
But really he's just a softie inside. They all are really. When megabeasts come to your fort you never welcome them inside and give them a hug, do you. You heartless bastards...

Skorpion

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2009, 11:25:10 pm »

Well, after finding a good third of the fortress guard in bed with broken bones (and a spleen, in one case. How do you BREAK an organ?), I've decided that keeping them nearly dead is a good thing; they're harmless. (As opposed to the captain of the guard, who's multiple legendary, and the main brewer of the fort.)
Maybe I'll armour them when I can spare enough steel for the caps, but I have literally no iron ore on the map, and no trees other than tower-caps that never seem to mature.
And when I have another goddamn leathermaker, after the legendary one fell into the magma pipe due to a masonry accident.
Logged
The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

Judas Maccabeus

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2009, 10:57:45 am »

(and a spleen, in one case. How do you BREAK an organ?)

Hit it VERY hard.

Good thing the spleen isn't vital, though I imagine having a broken spleen inside oneself would lead to a fatal infection very quickly.

Quote
but I have literally no iron ore on the map,

Ah, that'll do it.  No armor (or only leather) it is.

Also, I see you have my same "skill" when it comes to building things over dangerous areas. :P
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I'm talking about the bronze colossus. It's supposed to be made entirely of bronze.
But really he's just a softie inside. They all are really. When megabeasts come to your fort you never welcome them inside and give them a hug, do you. You heartless bastards...

Skorpion

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2009, 12:37:17 pm »

I was making a noble-disposal cave-in trap, and some twat built over open space, unsupported.
Logged
The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

Silenoz

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2009, 01:32:50 pm »

I'm playing my first fort with significant iron deposits and flux, so my 25 dwarf military is almost completely decked out head to toe in steel chain+plate. I let all of them train to legendary wrestler with a high shield skill before I armed them, and this resulted in one broken arm. I went five straight years of sparring (all using good-masterwork quality steel weapons)  without a single sparring injury, not even blood in the barracks. All of them got to legendary in their weapon, wrestling, armor, and shield user, with max visible stats.

Then I drafted six migrants into the Royal Guard to appease the nobles and gave them leather/shield/unarmed. Half of the first group died sparring this year.  ;D

How to keep them from injuring eachother when low on metals? Wrestle with leather, but they're going to break some bones. Otherwise just use marksdwarves.
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Shrike

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Re: Sparring injuries.
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2009, 01:48:52 pm »

Even a plain leather armor is a major step up for injury prevention. You can have your carpenters make shields, too.

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