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Author Topic: I guess asking wont hurt...  (Read 3451 times)

Armok

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I guess asking wont hurt...
« on: July 24, 2009, 01:59:27 pm »

Considering the wealth of content on the web, almost everything you could think of probably exist, or at least something reasonably similar, especially an several media can be easily produced by anyone anyone can do. But finding it can be hard, so I ask if anyone has found something that is:

* Hard scifi
* free, and reasonably legal
* good writing/art (depending on media)
* a deep, moving plot whit significance beyond the moments entertainment.
* innovative, being free of a clear genre is a good sign of this.
* emotionally involving.
* a wide of moods and pace, generally offering many different experiences within the same work.
* good characters: deep, well developed, involving, lovable etc.
* realistic nonhuman psychology.
* Protagonist being artificial, like genetically engineered or AI (a character whit a human used as a base or whit a human brain dosn't count), humanity being antagonistic.
* at least one character whit a mayor role being digital, and good, but very far from human.
* avoids being anviliscius, and common traps like Good vs. Evil. But Tropes Are not Bad.
* Mainly serious (but not depressing. occasional comedy isn't bad.), whit a scope that is large and meaningful on some level, but not falling into a "save the world" trap.

Just suggest stuff that I'd like based on this, it's so specific I doubt something that fullfill all the criteria will be found.
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Jude

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2009, 02:04:16 pm »

That's way too many criteria. Just chillax and try reading books and you'll find that you like some of them even if they don't fit all your checklist.

Try the Chronicles of Amber.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 02:12:35 pm »

Dude, CoA hardly mets anything like what is described above.
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Armok

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 02:15:20 pm »

I read/wach all kinds of fiction all the time, anI like most of it, but I like some things more than others, and I figured I might ask if anyone knows something that has most of the criteria that tends to make me like something more. As the title says, I guess asking wont hurt, even if the chance of getting a good answer is little.
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Aqizzar

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 02:18:11 pm »

What are you expecting, someone to wave a magic wand and conjure up the perfect Internet-original for you?

Just read Schlock Mercenary.  It's all that, with some badly needed humor.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 02:19:18 pm »

I was thinking that perhaps Foundation and Earth sort of meets your criteria.


V Hard scifi
X free, and reasonably legal
V good writing/art (depending on media)
V a deep, moving plot whit significance beyond the moments entertainment.
V innovative, being free of a clear genre is a good sign of this.
- emotionally involving.  (not particularily involving, I think. It wont make you cry. Then again, who knows. I'm not a sensitive person to begin wtih)
? a wide of moods and pace, generally offering many different experiences within the same work.
V good characters: deep, well developed, involving, lovable etc.
V realistic nonhuman psychology.
V Protagonist being artificial, like genetically engineered or AI (a character whit a human used as a base or whit a human brain dosn't count), humanity being antagonistic.
V at least one character whit a mayor role being digital, and good, but very far from human.
V avoids being anviliscius, and common traps like Good vs. Evil. But Tropes Are not Bad.
V Mainly serious (but not depressing. occasional comedy isn't bad.), whit a scope that is large and meaningful on some level, but not falling into a "save the world" trap.

I think the first three Foundation books are far better than the last two, though, TBH
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 02:22:06 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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Armok

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 02:36:23 pm »

I've read Foundation and Earth already. It was decent, but not extraordinary, it was to dry, and the science is dated. Generally nothing older than a decade or two is hard enough as science is changing to fast. Also, if I remember correctly the protagonists of all the foundation books were human, there were mayor nonhuman characters, but the protagonists I think were all human.

I think webcomics and/or anime are really more fertile hunting grounds, thou anything works. The most preferable form of presentation would be some new semiunknown kind of webfition along the lines of MSPA or Sailor Nothing.
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Sizik

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 07:16:42 pm »

! = fulfills
X = doesn't fulfill
~ = partially fulfills:

~ Hard scifi
~ free, and reasonably legal
   (free demo)
! good writing/art (depending on media)
! a deep, moving plot whit significance beyond the moments entertainment.
! innovative, being free of a clear genre is a good sign of this.
! emotionally involving.
! a wide of moods and pace, generally offering many different experiences within the same work.
! good characters: deep, well developed, involving, lovable etc.
! realistic nonhuman psychology.
X Protagonist being artificial, like genetically engineered or AI (a character whit a human used as a base or whit a human brain dosn't count), humanity being antagonistic.
   (kind of the other way around)
! at least one character whit a mayor role being digital, and good, but very far from human.
! avoids being anviliscius, and common traps like Good vs. Evil. But Tropes Are not Bad.
! Mainly serious (but not depressing. occasional comedy isn't bad.), whit a scope that is large and meaningful on some level, but not falling into a "save the world" trap.

Although I don't know if Portal is quite what you're looking for.
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Nilocy

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 08:44:56 pm »

If this is a book your wanted, I highly recommend reading Peter F. Hamiltons Commonwealth saga; its 2 novels. (theres also another triology set in hte same universe like 1200 years later)

Basically my synopsis of the books are everything your asking for here,
its fairly hard scifi (death is solved/massive corporations own everything)
It gets really deep when you get to know the characters, theres like zillions of connections that go way beyond the friendly hello
innovative... hmm might be depending on what you've read
emotionally involving - yes
definately a large range of moods
There are alot of characters (which isn't a bad thing) and every major player is explored in a fairly good way
realistic nonhuman psychology - there is a planet which is effectively a sentiant AI
ditto for your next one
Theres no good vs evil in this, you see everything for everyones point of view.
And yeah, its very serious.
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Armok

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 09:26:14 pm »

What are you expecting, someone to wave a magic wand and conjure up the perfect Internet-original for you?

Just read Schlock Mercenary.  It's all that, with some badly needed humor.
Alredy read it, was going to include it (together whit A Miracle of Science and Freefall) as an example of that my demands are not impossible.  But otherwise it's the closest suggested yet.
! = fulfills
X = doesn't fulfill
~ = partially fulfills:

~ Hard scifi
~ free, and reasonably legal
   (free demo)
! good writing/art (depending on media)
! a deep, moving plot whit significance beyond the moments entertainment.
! innovative, being free of a clear genre is a good sign of this.
! emotionally involving.
! a wide of moods and pace, generally offering many different experiences within the same work.
! good characters: deep, well developed, involving, lovable etc.
! realistic nonhuman psychology.
X Protagonist being artificial, like genetically engineered or AI (a character whit a human used as a base or whit a human brain dosn't count), humanity being antagonistic.
   (kind of the other way around)
! at least one character whit a mayor role being digital, and good, but very far from human.
! avoids being anviliscius, and common traps like Good vs. Evil. But Tropes Are not Bad.
! Mainly serious (but not depressing. occasional comedy isn't bad.), whit a scope that is large and meaningful on some level, but not falling into a "save the world" trap.

Although I don't know if Portal is quite what you're looking for.
The problem is portal is expensive, and a game, the free part is kinda important, and I generally don't have time to play games. Otherwise from reviews and stuff that I've read it sounds very good as well, maybe in 30 years when it's abandonware...
If this is a book your wanted, I highly recommend reading Peter F. Hamiltons Commonwealth saga; its 2 novels. (theres also another triology set in hte same universe like 1200 years later)

Basically my synopsis of the books are everything your asking for here,
its fairly hard scifi (death is solved/massive corporations own everything)
It gets really deep when you get to know the characters, theres like zillions of connections that go way beyond the friendly hello
innovative... hmm might be depending on what you've read
emotionally involving - yes
definately a large range of moods
There are alot of characters (which isn't a bad thing) and every major player is explored in a fairly good way
realistic nonhuman psychology - there is a planet which is effectively a sentiant AI
ditto for your next one
Theres no good vs evil in this, you see everything for everyones point of view.
And yeah, its very serious.
Sounds good, next time I go to the library for some reading (probably in a few years, considering how much I have to read already X_X) I'll try to remember it.
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Ampersand

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2009, 10:09:59 pm »

Browse through this.

http://www.365tomorrows.com/

And also this.

http://everything2.com/
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corvvs

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2009, 10:12:18 pm »

I'm going to second the Chronicles of Amber as being a great series that you'd probably like, although as far as the sci-fi goes it's very soft.


X Hard scifi -- decidedly not, there are many fantasy elements, but the major ones involve a coherent metaverse that explains them to a degree where they can be termed soft sci-fi - Zelazny has written a bit of harder sci-fi, but in general his stories are mostly about deep character interaction; his perspective seemed to be that technology is incidental and anything powerful and worldview-changing [personal spaceflight, etc.] is going to quickly become commonplace in the world and not need to be focused on [see computers today]. One advantage this has is that very few of his stories have the "retro-future tech" problem like some Asimov, etc. do.
X free, and reasonably legal -- I'm sure you can find torrents, and as the author is dead maybe you can morally justify it somewhat.
V good writing/art (depending on media) -- WONDERFUL writing. Zelazny is easily my favorite sci-fi author. The Dream Master is a fantastic novel (about a future psychologist who uses a device that allows him to craft dreams for his patients' therapy), he wrote many really really awesome short stories, and of course the aforementioned Chronicles of Amber.
V a deep, moving plot whit significance beyond the moments entertainment. -- beautiful plot, and one cool thing about Zelazny's writing style is that the more well-read you are the better you'll appreciate it. He writes so that being a Literature major is not necessary to understanding but you'll note little in-jokes and references if you're widely read. Paraphrased example: "I guess this is what they mean when they say things fall apart; the center cannot hold." -- reference to the poem The Second Coming by William Butler Yeats (things fall apart/the center cannot hold/mere anarchy is loosed upon the world).
V innovative, being free of a clear genre is a good sign of this.
V emotionally involving. -- of course, this varies from person to person, but I think so.
V a wide of moods and pace, generally offering many different experiences within the same work.
V good characters: deep, well developed, involving, lovable etc. -- also snarky and sarcastic (especially the protagonists, Corwin [first 5 books] and Merlin [second 5 books])
V realistic nonhuman psychology.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
X Protagonist being artificial, like genetically engineered or AI (a character whit a human used as a base or whit a human brain dosn't count), humanity being antagonistic.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
V at least one character whit a mayor role being digital, and good, but very far from human. -- Although it doesn't come into the story until book 6 or 7.
V avoids being anviliscius, and common traps like Good vs. Evil. But Tropes Are not Bad.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
V Mainly serious (but not depressing. occasional comedy isn't bad.), whit a scope that is large and meaningful on some level, but not falling into a "save the world" trap. -- yep; there isn't much of a "save the world" vibe. Large, multiverse shaking stuff happens, but the characters are basically interested in 1) saving their own skin, and 2) seeing if they can politically outmaneuver one another so that they come out on top when the crisis is over.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:31:12 pm by corvvs »
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Ampersand

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2009, 10:33:14 pm »

Speaking of Asimov,

http://www.asimovs.com/
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Armok

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2009, 10:41:47 pm »

Browse through this.

http://www.365tomorrows.com/

And also this.

http://everything2.com/
Huh? A short story about tatoos and a link about Scientology? what does it have to do whit anything? (the short story was nice thou.)

I'm going to second the Chronicles of Amber as being a great series that you'd probably like, although as far as the sci-fi goes it's very soft.
Looks interesting, will look into that to whenever I visit a library.

Speaking of Asimov,

http://www.asimovs.com/
This also seems semi-oftopic, considering this is just a link to some list of works, and not a specific one.
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Ampersand

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Re: I guess asking wont hurt...
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2009, 10:47:04 pm »

The first link has a short story almost every day.

The second link has a lot of stuff in it. Kind of like Wikipedia, only far less reputable, with random fiction people write thrown in, frequently Sci-fi.

The last one does have links to specific works that you can indeed read, mostly prize winners, usually very high quality.
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