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[nagual678]

You knew this was going to come. But first, look at the two offending pieces of evidence.

Of course, the real answer is that Toady and Threetoe haven't had the time to do it, as it takes an amount of time and effort they can't divert from attending to our beloved dwarves. So you could put this among the list of topics such as multicore support, the interface/graphics overhaul, etc... that are always classified as "not a priority, since it is not about gameplay".

On the contrary. Gameplay is the sum of all the experiences you go through while playing a videogame, and if you are given a "our website is intentionally terrible, just like the games we create" impression before even downloading the game, you might put off the person to the point of her not giving it even a first shot.

Or, you could give Dwarf Fortress the modern, aesthetical, befitting webpage worth of its excellency. It doesn't need to be flashy, as long as it replaces the current first look at Bay12 and Dwarf Fortress. It's not like people are going to get disappointed by the game if its graphics don't live up to a website that presents itself decently. If the first download of the game counts, then so does the first front page load. And with the popularity and publicity Dwarf Fortress is now getting, you can't keep pretending it still has the status of your run-of-the-mill alpha game.

What do you think?

[d64]

The bay12 front page isn't too great, I give you that. But I think the DF homepage is fine as it is. Easy to navigate and easy to read. Anyway, if someone is put off by the webpage, I don't think they'd be too excited by the ASCII graphics either.

Also I believe a major plus for such a compact site and simple layout is that editing the pages by hand is hassle-free, no need for any sort of a complex bunch of CMS scripts.

[Dohon]

I for one quite like the current lay-out. Seriously. While it is minimalistic, it does the job wonderfully. It's simpel, clean, not bothered by flashy flash objects. It's almost ... Dwarven. Needs more magma for that though.

Ofcourse, that's just my opinion. And it is also my opinion when I state that if someone comes to the site, sees the lay-out and decides: "Looks ugly, not gonna play" ... That player won't be very commited to DF in the first place. Ascii isn't as hot as the Unreal Engine to them. It's what inside that counts, not the looks. 

EDIT: d64 beat me to the punch.

[Deon]

I like it too. It's a quite unique site, at least I'd recognize it between thousands by a simple thumbnail of a main page screenshot.

It delivers, I don't care for anything else . I check it ony to see updates, so I don't care about anything else. It could be good to make something "cool", but you should understand that the current site is a part of DF community history and a live example of Beyond Quality concept.

[nagual678]

And it is also my opinion when I state that if someone comes to the site, sees the lay-out and decides: "Looks ugly, not gonna play" ... That player won't be very commited to DF in the first place. Ascii isn't as hot as the Unreal Engine to them. It's what inside that counts, not the looks. 

We all love ASCII. But honestly even someone that likes ASCII could be put off by what the website looks like- a joke. You need to give DF a confident look if you want everyone to take it seriously. ASCII is one of the game's strengths, which is why you shouldn't make the "gameplay first, besides ASCII is awesome because it's not within the accepted graphics paradigm, it's all like reading a book, etc..." philosophy look like "i don't really care about what my game or webpage looks like, perhaps because i'm not really focused on the insides anyway", and obviously this is not true.

[Capntastic]

Why does everyone feel that they're required to pick apart every little thing related to DF?

[Eduren]

Why does everyone feel that they're required to pick apart every little thing related to DF?

It seems to come from the notion that this is a community-developed game. Which, while arguably valid, manages to ignore that it is not "our" game. It's his game.

[Duke 2.0]

I actually would not mind DF having a website similar to the Cave Story fan site, with a ban-
*Checks site*

 ...

 Alright, they changed the site so nobody who hasn't already seen the old site knows what I'm talking about. But it was simple enough of a site while looking alright. Of course it would require either some awesome ASCII art at the top or some graphical tiles up there.

[Mohreb el Yasim]

Just three points for the OP:
-A constructive propositions needs an input: what would you like?
-If you wan't a change to be esaly accepted propose your help! If some interested fun can do a page wich Toady likes i don't tink he would reject it. (and HTML is easy to do)
-Please, don't think about flashing menus, or even image made ones, or javascripted events. those are so unusable in a textual only browser ... and i use one to see DF page frequently.(don't think i am the only one)

[Aqizzar]

I am not in favor of a big, snazzy, Web 2.0 makeover with gradients and flash and crap.  I think the Bay 12 webspace is endearing, in a Geocities, 90's-retro sort of way.  Toady says the frontpage has looked like that for about a decade, so it's a relic from another era.

[cowofdoom78963]

A constructive propositions needs an input: what would you like?

Well it was pretty much implied.

I dont have much of a problem with the site myself, but I can see where others could.

Also the 90's are now retro?

[Aqizzar]

Heck, in Internet terms, Retro would be "Snakes on a Plane" territory.  The 90's are downright Medieval.

[GFXiNXS]

Heh, funnily enough I was just thinking this the other day. Not necessarily a complete design overhaul (as the current layout is rather convenient), but more along the lines of just improving the "Beyond quality" insignia and such. As it stands, the "beyond quality" jpeg is a tad ironic

Given Toady's consent, it'd be great if various users could all submit their designs for toady to pick from. Things such as logo's, the tiled backdrop etc.

I run a graphics department in a broadcasting corporation and currently spend the majority of my time pumping out graphical elements for a kids program (alongside football and other such junk). As far removed from the nature of Dwarf Fortress as this is, I'd love to sink my teeth into these web elements, and, given the other talent I've seen around, I'm sure there are many more who would like to pitch their bid.

Given Toady's fondness of the good old, I'm assuming that he is already quite fond of the current design. I'd be curious as to what Toady's thoughts are on this matter.

[Aqizzar]

improving the "Beyond quality" insignia and such. As it stands, the "beyond quality" jpeg is a tad ironic

[DennyTom]

Dwarf Fortress homepage is quite OK, but Bay12Games homepage is really terrible.

DF is really great but it suffers from under-estimated presentation. Toady is living from making DF, right? So luring new buyers (or donors in this case) should be one of his priorities.

I have never seen any ad for DF or Bay12. New players find game by stumbling upon short reviews or their friend recommends it to them. Then they go to website and it looks like this. Some of them download DF and they see Matrix like mess running all around in small window with minimal help and no tutorial using not intuitive interface. They find that game is fun AFTER several hours of trying and reading forums and wiki. Lots of players just give up. This clearly is not good.

With all respect to Toady`s and Threetoe`s work they have TERRIBLE promotion skills and they can have much, much more support, they just need to put some effort in presentation.