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[lodester]

I had a particularly aggravating series of dealing with incompetent fucking humans at work today, along with a raging headache due to not having eaten in more than a day.....so...whatever. $30 of BBQ later, I'm feeling much better. Let's take a shot at an apology:

Take the asshole out of the post i made and the general tone is : People who get upset at people being 'snarky' on an internet forum, especially one where simple questions have simple answers that people get absolutely tired of answering over and over and over and over again, and resources and an abundance of information are well presented to help these people asking the questions...i have no sympathy, really none at all. It only bothers me when meddling holier-than-thou netiquette police have nothing better to do than come in and complain that someone's being 'snarky'. Welcome to the internet now go back to your geocities crochet webring ... or get over yourself.

Still rude i guess. Just goes to show you, you can feed an asshole and it's still an asshole....whatever. Fucking humans.

[profit]

LOL you know with the price of dwarf fortress and the price of Dwarf therapist being 0$ if people have this sense of entitlement with the government we could all be in massive trouble...

Oh Shiiiiiiii........

Anyhow =)  We will all attempt to be friendly.. We will politely with a lil snark re-post ini files for people who ask and they will feel entitled but still use one of the best utilities ever created for dwarf fortress.

*EDIT*  BTW how screwed we are -> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Meanmelter]

*EDIT*  BTW how screwed we are -> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Wow, Japan is %202!

[Chrissi]

I had a particularly aggravating series of dealing with incompetent fucking humans at work today, along with a raging headache due to not having eaten in more than a day.....so...whatever. $30 of BBQ later, I'm feeling much better. Let's take a shot at an apology:

Take the asshole out of the post i made and the general tone is : People who get upset at people being 'snarky' on an internet forum, especially one where simple questions have simple answers that people get absolutely tired of answering over and over and over and over again, and resources and an abundance of information are well presented to help these people asking the questions...i have no sympathy, really none at all. It only bothers me when meddling holier-than-thou netiquette police have nothing better to do than come in and complain that someone's being 'snarky'. Welcome to the internet now go back to your geocities crochet webring ... or get over yourself.

Still rude i guess. Just goes to show you, you can feed an asshole and it's still an asshole....whatever. Fucking humans.

I understand you had a hard day, but to me, this is exactly the wrong attitude to take. There is a certain amount of hypocricy in saying that you hate when people complain about snarkiness, but that you feel it is okay to blow off the handle at them because they should have known better.

Their asking a stupid question is probably completely disassociated with the rest of their life, you know.  They are normal people who get up, go to work, come home, and are completely boggled at why people are getting angry at them on the internet.  They will not learn from you getting angry at them.  And as frustrating as it may be for you to answer the same questions over and over when they are easily accessible.... there is a simple solution.  Either don't answer, ignore it completely, or find the easily-accessible link and post it.  There, problem dealt with, with much less stress involved.

Maybe I'm overthinking this.  But it's just an issue I've been thinking about lately, as there are a lot of forums that I frequent where some (or even all) of the members have this kind of "blow up at newbies" attitude that really seems wrong to me.  Everybody makes stupid mistakes.  Everybody.  You do too.  Maybe you don't want to admit it, but you're just as stupid a human as the person who asks the stupid question in a thread where the answer is right in front of their nose.  It's just that your stupidity isn't showing up in this context, because you're more well-versed here.  You're comfortable.  The person who comes in and says "LOL HOW DUZ I INSTALL DORF" isn't.

[profit]

*EDIT*  BTW how screwed we are -> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Wow, Japan is %202!

Yeah japan has been having a horrible struggle and they keep getting worse.  Thankfully they do not have the level of  mortgage and credit card debt America has.

They still call the last 10 years though the "Lost decade"

* they also do not have 900% of the debt being off book in the unfunded liabilities of social security and medicare/medicaid.  Add 109 trillion dollars to our debt to find out what we really owe.

[Pistolero]

Everybody makes stupid mistakes.  Everybody.  You do too.

The only personality type that never makes mistakes is the personality type that is too afraid of failure to attempt new things in the first place. Something I've been thinking about lately, since that was me for a very long time, and I never saw it. It lets you go through life feeling a bit superior to those around you, since they're stumbling along while you always get it perfect. Then you realise you're doing the exact same shit you've been doing your whole life, walking in circles (or more appropriately, a shallow spiral), while they're stumbling because they're learning new things every day and leaving you behind.

[Pistolero]

I also have my opinions about the personality types who typically blast people for a mythical 'sense of entitlement'. All I saw was someone asking for the kind of politeness and respect they would have been offered in person. If you enjoy behaving like an asshole, but only do it online because you're afraid of the repercussions irl, you really need to ask yourself why you're such an asshole, why you're so timid in person, and whether they might be linked.

[Chrissi]

The only personality type that never makes mistakes is the personality type that is too afraid of failure to attempt new things in the first place. Something I've been thinking about lately, since that was me for a very long time, and I never saw it. It lets you go through life feeling a bit superior to those around you, since they're stumbling along while you always get it perfect. Then you realise you're doing the exact same shit you've been doing your whole life, walking in circles (or more appropriately, a shallow spiral), while they're stumbling because they're learning new things every day and leaving you behind.

Yes, I also used to be this person... I thought I was so much better than everyone else, criticizing others for the things I'm doing right and feeling like I'm on the right track because all these other people are stupid, I'M the one who knows how to do things right.  I think this kind of minor superiority complex went with my teenage years... well, I hope!  I definitely try these days just to put myself in other peoples' shoes.

I think there's another part to this.  People complain that "well they ask and they ask and they ask and why don't they just look! It's right there!"  I think these people are thinking more of themselves than others.  They're enjoying mocking others because it makes them feel strong.  They know something this other person doesn't know, and they think it's okay because it's plainly obvious to them.  So it should be plainly obvious to everyone, right?!

Everyone does things for a reason.  Nobody wakes up and goes "You know, I'm just going to be a huge dick today.  I'm going to go on internet forums and ask people questions that I could have found the answer to myself.  And then I am going to be really defensive when they criticize me, because I'm just a dick like that."

[forsaken1111]

Nobody wakes up and goes "You know, I'm just going to be a huge dick today.  I'm going to go on internet forums and ask people questions that I could have found the answer to myself.  And then I am going to be really defensive when they criticize me, because I'm just a dick like that."

I do this.

[narc]

[...]I think there's another part to this.  People complain that "well they ask and they ask and they ask and why don't they just look! It's right there!"  I think these people are thinking more of themselves than others.  They're enjoying mocking others because it makes them feel strong.  They know something this other person doesn't know, and they think it's okay because it's plainly obvious to them.  So it should be plainly obvious to everyone, right?![...]

I've read your other posts in this thread and you're not entirely wrong, I'm just not convinced about this part -- it seems a bit like you're underestimating the irritation of a really bad day. I know that, personally, when I have a really bad day, I get very easily irritated by the slightest sign of stupidity (note: stupidity, NOT ignorance! The difference: if you don't know, you can learn, but if you don't learn, you're just being stupid).

When that happens, and speaking solely for myself, I've learned it's best to just skip the irritant altogether -- file it away for a later response and not think about it -- but the reason I do that is: it doesn't make me feel any better to hand out a snarky reply. If it did make me feel better, I'd be all over them just to get the irritant out of my system.

Edit: Bottom line, a bad day changes the equation. Don't overlook that part.

[Chrissi]

Yes, you're right... a bad day will make you say things you wouldn't have otherwise.  You're not thinking clearly and you might want to take out some of your anger on somebody - not consciously, but it just feels like they deserve it more than usual or more than they really do.

It doesn't change my argument at all though.  We will all do this at times, the difference is realizing we've done it - I think some here have.

[Jimmy]

*EDIT*  BTW how screwed we are -> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Wow, Japan is %202!

Yeah japan has been having a horrible struggle and they keep getting worse.  Thankfully they do not have the level of  mortgage and credit card debt America has.

They still call the last 10 years though the "Lost decade"

* they also do not have 900% of the debt being off book in the unfunded liabilities of social security and medicare/medicaid.  Add 109 trillion dollars to our debt to find out what we really owe.

Bwahaha, suckers. Eat my 'in the black' state debt average. http://www.debtclock.com.au/

[Andir]

I think there's another part to this.  People complain that "well they ask and they ask and they ask and why don't they just look! It's right there!"  I think these people are thinking more of themselves than others.  They're enjoying mocking others because it makes them feel strong.  They know something this other person doesn't know, and they think it's okay because it's plainly obvious to them.  So it should be plainly obvious to everyone, right?!

Don't agree.  It is obvious.  It's in literal black and white.  (well, white on black in my theme)  If they are too lazy to read, they deserve it.  Just like in life: If you are too lazy to read that it's illegal to do something, you pay for it.  It really just takes a bit of your own time to learn something by reading up on it, but for some reason people feel that they are entitled to skip their own learning because someone will give them the answer and I think that's wrong.  They aren't learning anything by ignoring the past.  In a forum and in real life.  The big difference here is that the forum is digital and doesn't change based on a person's recollection of events.  You can literally travel back in time and see what the EXACT answer is for it if you spend the time.  Instead, they are trying to save their own time by skipping this process and asking someone else who's spent more time here who's already read the answer.  They are asking someone else to save them time without paying it forward.  People can go back and read what they wrote without having someone else interpret it for them.  So, IMHO, it's the exact opposite.  Someone who doesn't take the time to go back a few days and read up on the events unfolding is thinking that their time is more important than the time of the others.  There's arrogance and superiority on both sides.  It's not the snarky comments for the most part.  They are being defensive.  "How dare you steal my time for your benefit."

[Pistolero]

Don't agree.  It is obvious.  It's in literal black and white.  (well, white on black in my theme)  If they are too lazy to read, they deserve it.  Just like in life

That's really the key isn't it? In life, we learn to treat people with respect. It's pretty rare to hear someone respond to a question rudely, even if they feel that the answer should be obvious or could be discovered if the person was only familiar enough with the dewey decimal system or internet forums or wikipedia or fox news or wherever you get your information, to look it up themselves. I would happily estimate that less than .001% of the comments I hear in real life are as rude as the comments people make from anonymity, and when they are, they tend to be directly aggressive, an attempt to force physical confrontation.

If you treat people differently online to how you do in person, ask yourself why.

[The Architect]

Ah! NO! It's a sensible post!

People sitting reading the forums are usually either social outcasts or people with nothing to do at the moment. There are also foolish and bored people like me who do this during their college classes, but you'll find that the amount of time spent here by most corresponds to a lack of time spent in social environments.

In short: telling "forumites" to match their internet behavior to their normal social behavior is probably not as sensible as it seems.