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[Luke_Prowler]

Where do dangerous/scam cults go here?

[Rowanas]

Hmm. I heavily disagree with the evolution of religions as far a mono/poly theistic evolution goes. also, why are there no atheist dwarves?

[chucks]

Very good post, OP!!!

Gods and Pantheons could also be easily tied to differing spheres, and the spheres of the worshippers could have an effect upon their enjoyment of various professions or activities.  Your dwarf worships the god of War and Honor, he would make an excellent soldier.  Your dwarf worships the god of Fertility and fruits, he makes an excellent farmer.  Your dwarf worships the god of Excesses, he makes a good cook or brewer and throws a lot of parties.  Your dwarf worships the god of Metal and Smithing, excellent forge operator.  So on and so forth.

Also, many Pantheons had trixter gods and a gods with more than a benevolent bloodthirst.  Your dwarf worships the god of Music and Riddles, he makes an excellent craftsman but has his quirks and likes to play pranks on other dwarfs on occasion.  Your dwarf worships the god of Shadow and Theivery, he makes an excellent spy but will begin to steal and horde items if not watched.

Yet another interesting twist could come about when magic and divine cleric powers are included.  Many fictions stress that magic originates from the gods, but others say that magic is a blasphemous act against the gods.  If an individual is annointed by a deity to be his messenger or vessel or oracle or some other such bullcrap, perhaps this preacherdwarf can really make the lame walk or something silly.  The possiblities are endless!

There's a lot of fun for all positive, neutral, and negative gameplay consequences.  What this sort of change would provide would be greater variability all around on sentients' individual motivations and desires.  How much do the deities meddle in the affairs of mortals?  Who knows.

[Strife26]

YES!

I like the suggestions a lot. Especially if they're hard codable, so I can make my always Christan zefies.

[ChairmanPoo]

Hmm. I heavily disagree with the evolution of religions as far a mono/poly theistic evolution goes. also, why are there no atheist dwarves?

well, quite frankly, I have noticed a bit of a bias there as well. Although, TBH, it's easier for a monotheistic religion to evolve from a polytheistic one (IE: Atonism, arguably the first true monotheistic religion), than viceversa (AFAIK no monotheistic religion has evolved into a polytheistic one).

So, as long as we ignore the claim that somehow monotheistic faiths are more refined than polytheistic ones (which is simply not true. Hindus have a very ellaborate theology, likely more complex than anything the abrahamic religions have simply by virtue of having had people writing about it for far longer), it's sort of allright for DF religious mechanics to have some creatures worship one god of a multiple panteon in exclusivity (say, for instance, ATM dwarves only worship one god. What if ALL the dwarves in a fortress worshipped that one god? Wouldnt that sort of make them at least monolaters, if not monotheists?)

[chucks]

Hmm. I heavily disagree with the evolution of religions as far a mono/poly theistic evolution goes. also, why are there no atheist dwarves?

well, quite frankly, I have noticed a bit of a bias there as well. Although, TBH, it's easier for a monotheistic religion to evolve from a polytheistic one (IE: Atonism, arguably the first true monotheistic religion), than viceversa (AFAIK no monotheistic religion has evolved into a polytheistic one).

You're missing Roman Catholicism completely.  Yeah, there might be ONE God, but what about all those Saints and the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirt and the Son of God.  I'd say that with the basic pantheon of Roman Catholics, you get 3 deities for God in various forms, and 1 for the Mother of God.  Throw in the Saints and you have oodles and oodles of deities.

[ChairmanPoo]

Yeah, I am fairly sure that the catholic saint stuff began as an attempt to synchretize local pagan gods with their saints (Exhibit A: the many pagan gods that were retconned as saints). But I dont know if it counts as polytheism proper or yet another christian oddity (since most of them are trinitarian anyway).

(trivia: confronting christians with the contradiction between their beliefs and monotheism dates back to at least Emperor Julian)

[HammerHand]

Yet another interesting twist could come about when magic and divine cleric powers are included.  Many fictions stress that magic originates from the gods, but others say that magic is a blasphemous act against the gods.  If an individual is annointed by a deity to be his messenger or vessel or oracle or some other such bullcrap, perhaps this preacherdwarf can really make the lame walk or something silly.  The possiblities are endless!

Urist McCheeser has been Possessed!
Urist McCheeser has been Chosen by Urvod Breakhammer the Goading Tide of Arrogance!
Urist McCheeser has become Urist McCultist!
A party has been started by Urist McCheeser at Stone Table.
The cult of The Goading Tide of Arrogance has been formed.
Urist McFisher has been poisoned!
Urist McLyemaker ahs been poisoned!
Urist McMason has been poisoned!
Urist McSoldier has been poisoned!
Urist McMiner has been poisoned!
Urist McButcher has been poisoned!
Urist McCultist has been poisoned!
The cult of The Goading Tide of Arrogance has been wiped out.

[Rowanas]

Suicide pacts! no!...

Tantrum spirals are for pussies.

[Granite26]

well, quite frankly, I have noticed a bit of a bias there as well. Although, TBH, it's easier for a monotheistic religion to evolve from a polytheistic one (IE: Atonism, arguably the first true monotheistic religion), than viceversa (AFAIK no monotheistic religion has evolved into a polytheistic one).

I supposed I can accept being called 'biased towards the way things tend to happen.'

As far as the Hinduism being complex, that's kind of my point.  It's complex, and there's a lot of it.  In my experience, it's more complex than modern Christianity.  You guys are just putting your own conotations onto 'refined'.  Modern Christianity has been 'refined' down to a small, rather tight myth set from it's origins as a Judaic cult that adopted a multitude of pagan practices and figures.  Hinduism has not gone through that process, and still maintains a host of vestiges of the belief systems it absorbed while becoming a major religion.  Catholicism is the perfect example of the process.  It absorbed the pagan figures as saints, but as time has passed, these figures become less important.  Islam is even more refined, by virtue of not going through the absorbtion process. Judaism is considered to be even more monolithic than the other 2.

The preference for Monotheisms is not based on personal prejudice, but a desire to have the religions based on real world figures in the histories, rather than random gods created at world gen.

[ChairmanPoo]

Catholicism is the perfect example of the process.  It absorbed the pagan figures as saints, but as time has passed, these figures become less important

Well, the catholics I know do put a decent ammount stock in saints, or at least in their pet one.

Islam is even more refined, by virtue of not going through the absorbtion process.

They did absorb stuff, not only from judaism and christianity, but from their own middle east mythology (IE: Djinns. And others. There is a koran story about how supposedly Iblis -aka, the muslim devil analogue- gave Mohammed a fake Koran in which two traditional middle eastern goddesses were  Allah's assistants, but the next day he got the real thing from some angel or other, and recanted. Personally I suspect the man was thinking on compromising on the goddess issue to make the faith more acceptable for traditionalists, but decided against it)

[Granite26]

Good points... My experience with the... weirder bits... of people's religions is somewhat limited.  Specifically, it's been a while since I've met a Catholic that took the saints seriously.

Anyway, back on topic...

I notice that cults are a popular topic, and would need to be supported.

It seems to me that Scientology and early renaisance Catholocism could be described by an organization that profits from faith.  Since a dwarf would not be able to check the sincerity of another dwarfs beliefs, simply having the god on his worship list should be enough to gain position in the organization.

(I'm going to split religion from faith here.  Religion is the organization)

Religion could then be modeled just like any other group or guild, with faith the only membership requirement.  Since religious types would judge others at least partially by their adherence to the faith's standards, on average, faithful people should rise in the organization (win elections), however, the deceipt stats (lying, etc) could be used to mitigate those judgements.  In fact, since lying is a social skill, and high social skills should be corelated with winning, it's likely that higher-ups WILL be corrupt (or at least, there's a good chance of it).

There's a lot of talk of religion (versus faith) in some of the other threads (including the linked one), so I'll leave that there.
Cults...

What role would a cult play in a fort?  How is a cult not a nascient religion?

Could there be something to the refinement process of religions that cuts out the most pernicious beliefs?  Would it be better to simply start random religions (1 per 5-10 years?) and just have the 'bad' ones (beliefs at odds with the character of the faithful) vanish quickly? (or get put down).

What tools should the player have to control his dorf's religion?  Personally, the idea of a 'bad' cult gaining control of some of your legendaries strikes me as a FUN idea.  I know that a lot of players do not like losing absolute control, though.  How much ability to repress a dorfs religion is too much?

* By bad cult, I mean cult that encourages anti-social behaviour, whatever that is.  Obviously murder, but sex practices could be bad too.  Some players wouldn't want ascetics, while others would despise excess children. 

It might be a bit much to have suicide cults springing up and converting your legendaries.  Perhaps cults (nascent religions) are more likely when dwarves are unhappy?

[G-Flex]

Hmm. I heavily disagree with the evolution of religions as far a mono/poly theistic evolution goes. also, why are there no atheist dwarves?

well, quite frankly, I have noticed a bit of a bias there as well. Although, TBH, it's easier for a monotheistic religion to evolve from a polytheistic one (IE: Atonism, arguably the first true monotheistic religion), than viceversa (AFAIK no monotheistic religion has evolved into a polytheistic one).

The Mormons are pretty close.

[ChairmanPoo]

Good points... My experience with the... weirder bits... of people's religions is somewhat limited.  Specifically, it's been a while since I've met a Catholic that took the saints seriously.

Well, bear in mind that most cultured, open-minded christians (which is likely most of them in the west, barring the Bible Belt) take a more "relaxed" approach to their faith (the ones I had in mind when I made that comment were from a rather conservative group).

Perhaps cults (nascent religions) are more likely when dwarves are unhappy?

Better when very unhappy. And make it as a religion change.

For instance, what if Goblin sieges are causing a lot of dwarven casualties? Perhaps that would encourage dwarves to think that their god has abandoned them, or that the goblin god is more powerful...

[Granite26]

and since religions that don't fit the worshippers make people unhappy (but I WANT to have sex with guys), people will leave bad (for them) religions.

Edit: 
Another benefit to leaving the old gods is that if the new gods have no powers (but the old gods do), the divine magic of the world will slowly decrease.  As intended.