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[cerapa]

Sounds like half-life for some reason.

[Jreengus]

I was thinking war of the worlds.

[Aqizzar]

It's also the exact way Master of Orion 3 describes the Meklars.

[Pleeb]

Even if God does exist, and such a species also existed, a human would probably not be able to tell the difference between them!

This is what I always found funny about denying God because of the classical definition of being paradoxically perfect. If you can't even differentiate between a perfect and near perfect, what's it matter anyway? I don't think I read anyone like that here. Still funny to me.

I actually always considered "God" to mean more of a position than an actual entity, or refer to both much in the way the word "Mayor" does.

You don't know what evolution IS.

I think the OP got the important gist of it, things continuously improving over time.

Singularity

To deny progress is to deny God? This is what I always considered. "Evolution" is not exactly the right word. I think the OP was trying to come up with an argument based around what he thinks the opposition believes in. Anyway, the goal of perfection I think is characteristic of intelligences.

[Enzo]

I can't believe this topic has lasted this long. I just want to jump in because I also can't believe people haven't gotten this straight yet.

You don't know what evolution IS.

I think the OP got the important gist of it, things continuously improving over time.

That isn't what evolution is. Evolution is things adapting over time, not improving.

[Jreengus]

Yes the wrod improving seems to be responsible for quite a few misunderstandings involving evolution.

[Yanlin]

I can't believe this topic has lasted this long. I just want to jump in because I also can't believe people haven't gotten this straight yet.

You don't know what evolution IS.

I think the OP got the important gist of it, things continuously improving over time.

That isn't what evolution is. Evolution is things adapting over time, not improving.

Semantics. Adapting leads to improving.

But it is still wrong to say that evolution is about improving.

[Pleeb]

That isn't what evolution is. Evolution is things adapting over time, not improving.

Which the adaptations are a specific improvement for whatever the environment calls for, yes. It's a local improvement, but an improvement, an advantage, or a change for the better is the general idea of the outcome of evolution which I think the OP got that. Everyone loves semantics.

To strive for actual perfection/overall improvement I think requires intelligence because it is not necessary for survival.

[Aqizzar]

It's still not really "improvement".  Yes, a species adapts over time to it's environment, but the environment itself changes over time, including the other creatures in it.  So it becomes a big revolving gallery of species constantly overtaking eachother in different ways, all of them doomed when external factors shift.

"Improvement" is an intellectually dangerous term to use, because it implies a perfect end state to direct towards.

[Jreengus]

And thus leads to the original post.

[Pleeb]

Fine. The Semantic Reich hang me. Cut to:
A change for the better is the general idea of the outcome of evolution which I think the OP got that. That unspecific enough to slip by? He has a sort of very vague understanding that was at least related, and I disagreed with him having none-whatsoever. But that was really the most unimportant part of what I was intending to put importance on, never really was trying to disagree with you or defend him, I just thought it harsh you dissed him on that.

What I'm thinking about is:
"Intellectual progress" is what he should have used instead of "evolution" in such an argument for the existence of a God, thinking of "singularity" that was mentioned before. Please target that instead of semantics. Ninja'd twice and thrice times on semantics.

[Jreengus]

But dodgy semantics are so much easier to argue against than actual arguments!

[Enzo]

Has anyone linked to this yet?

Because it makes a fair point. Humans are completely out of the evolutionary loop at this point, because people with adaptive mutations aren't any more likely to pump out babies than the rest of the world.

[Pleeb]

Has anyone linked to this yet?

I LOVE that video. Hilarious.

But yea, we need to start implementing some artificial EVOLUTION (twitch goes those in the Semantic Reich, and the people that know what I mean don't care regardless of word choice) to make up for the lack of natural selection. Custom babies are only really held back by voters and politicians.

[Aqizzar]

Has anyone linked to this yet?

Because it makes a fair point. Humans are completely out of the evolutionary loop at this point, because people with adaptive mutations aren't any more likely to pump out babies than the rest of the world.

Not just dodgy mutations, but our eternal conflict between scarcity and culture could very well come to a head.  It's a damn good movie (like so many other prescient Mike Judge works), because it points out a very real fact - in the developed world, stupider people tend towards larger families, smarter people tend towards small numbers.  I think it's still fantastical parable because it takes extraordinary generations to make a serious shift in genetic tendency, but nonetheless, our ability to support ourselves and generate new people has outpaced our consciousness to limit ourselves.  In animal populations, this inevitably leads to massive die-back.

To keep up the funny, I can't find a good video of it, but Bill Maher correlated some other fun facts.  In the 1930s, the average American ate 6 pounds of cheese a year; today it's 30.  At the turn of the century, the average American woman's shoe size was 4; by 1970 it was 7; today it's 9.  Add to that, the average height of people of European decent has increased by about a foot over the past 400 years or so.  We are evolving - a segment of humanity is evolving into semi-intelligent livestock with no predators save disease.