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[Felblood]

Disclaimer1: This isn't an idea for the next release, or even the one after that. It's an idea I had, and then searched for, and I thought I'd point it out while it was on my mind.

Disclaimer2: I searched for this, but it's possible that i didn't use the best search string.

Now that adventurers are getting their own entity, that bundles all their exploits and achievements in one place, it would be possible(ish) for retired adventurers to regale strangers with tales of their heroic actions (or a random list of facts about their travels, whatever).

This strikes me as useful early ghost behavior. At first, only player characters will drop ghosts, and they'd do it all the time. (Once you have the ghosts and their basic behaviors worked out properly, then you can let other people have them, and dial back the haunting rates of player characters.)

The ghost of an adventurer could talk about himself and his fellow party members. Not only would this be helpful in getting the actions of your dead PCs into the legends, the information the ghost provides could be useful in other ways.

If you come upon the ghost of Lurist McRanger, in the Cave of Puppies and he informs you that, in 206, his meat shields sidekicks, Paco and Sancho were both killed by Giant Cave Spiders, in the Cave of Puppies, then you know to go on prepared to find GCS.

[Granite26]

I REALLY like the ability to do footwork in advance of a quest that will increase your odds by a high margin.  In my mind, it's the #1 missing element of dungeon/equipment choice games.

(As far as searching goes, 'this idea has come up 4 years ago under a different name' is nowhere near 'IF YOU'D JUST SEARCH YOUR GD @#$@$% TITLE, THERE'S 40 RESULTS YOU #@#$@# @#$@#$ @#$@#$#@'... no what I mean?)

[Warlord255]

If player ghosts were implemented next release - hypothetically - you'd still have the problem that, in all likelihood, you are playing your own world. So if your last adventurer's companions died in 206 in the Cave of Puppies from having their organs sucked out by spiders, having your last adventurer's ghost tell you this doesn't inform you of much.

Even then, ghosts should be a fairly rare occurrence. Ideally, in the ur-mythical DF 1.0, there should be a wide, light scattering of occurences like ghost visits, bandit attacks, etc.

[Felblood]

Ghosts should be a fairly rare occurrence. Ideally, in the ur-mythical DF 1.0, there should be a wide, light scattering of occurences like ghost visits, bandit attacks, etc.

Eventually, yes. --but until then, it'd be cool to have your adventurers be the primary source of ghosts, until the rest of the ghost sources get implemented. I did touch on phasing this system out as better mechanics evolve to replace it.

Ghosts strike me as something that will be mechanically troublesome, especially if some of them are hostile, and will have to be met with violence, before we have magic. As such, they should go in as soon as is prudent, so there's plenty of time to iron them out. Why wait for normal ghost creation to get implemented and refined to start refining ghosts?

--and yeah, it wouldn't really be that useful, except as a way of finding out whatever became of you old sidekicks, but it would be really cool. Right now, those guys seem to just vanish when their leader dies, and I always wonder what happens to them.

It wouldn't be any more helpful than using the legends to hunt locations with interesting monsters. It's always worth a trip to any place where a lot of people were eaten my werewolves, right?

I confess the whole thing is a bit Nethack-ish, but player ghosts that you can do something with besides fight for their old gear is something that we don't often get to see.

[Granite26]

I favor a story approach to ghosts.  Characters (PC or not) in the middle of epic events (epic quest maybe, or war, or whatever) don't move on until the event is resolved.  Ghost Power and Ghost Chance are both correlated to Player Level and Event Level.

Ghost Power = EventLevel * PlayerLevel / Ghosts Involved
Ghost Chance = EventLevel / PlayerLevel  ( AKA A more powerful character needs a more interesting event to keep him around). + Ghosts Involved (Once one ghost pops, dramatically increase the chance of additional ghosts.  This would yield 'Haunted Houses' where dying just increased the power of the house)

By Events, I mean the reason he's still here.  Maybe the char knows something, or was on a quest to deliver something

[Neonivek]

Well, ghosts don't have to be truely immortal or even immune to physical attack. They could also have methods of harm without going into magic.

Though there are so many ways to do this I don't even know where to start.

-Blessed weapons / Divine Rituals / Faith based defense
-Unique materials
-Artifacts
-Material Weakness: Wood, Wrought Iron, Silver, Salt, Water (Yes water)
-Mental weaknesses: Objects that caused their death could always give killing blows or disperse them (Feeding a ghost that starved to death COULD make it go away... or become enraged when it finds it cannot eat the food)
-Fetish: Ghosts could have a focus that if harmed they disapear.
-Limited Exposure: Ghosts could only have limited influence. Once that limit has been reached they should go into "Rest". They could feed on something but it would mean if your attacked by a ghost you don't have to be exposed for too long.

Getting sad the more supernatural discussions arn't more popular.

[Pilsu]

Do we really want to use the ghosts as just another type of mob?

[Granite26]

That's why I was suggesting ghost formation be tied directly to what the character was doing when he died, as well as a dispersal condition that had nothing to do with damage, and everything to do with world plot.

It inately ties a ghost to a plot, and resolving(killing) the ghost to the player getting involved in the plot.

[Neonivek]

Ghosts that assault the player are either soldiers or ghosts who died violently and even that isn't guarenteed. It could even go as far as to be judged by personality, a fearful Dwarf who was murdered could become a wailing ghost who does nothing but run around screeming constantly reinacting his death, one strike on him will always kill the ghost.

A Guard that was killed by an enemy invasion could assault adventurers of that same enemy's race. The ghost could also give missions for their heads (or the head of the person or son/daughter of the person who killed him)

This makes Forts that were abandoned due to Tantrum cycles likely dangerous as they are very likely to have malicious spirits pernamently enraged (as well as ghosts pernamently in a state of woe)

[Silverionmox]

It would be wonderful if there was an entire society of ghosts, on the map, but 99% of the time invisible/immaterial to the living. (akin to White Wolf's Wraith: the Oblivion) These ghosts could live their afterlife among the living, eventually forming their own cities and societies. Great place to store adventurers until they are possibly resurrected? If that fits the game. A nice quirk in Wraith is that some souls are forged into items: that's dwarven, and a good way to get rid of the culled, unimportant dead population.

[Pilsu]

Yes, enslaving the souls of your parents to make some fucking knickknacks fits a civ that punishes plain torture with the death penalty. Oh yeah

That was ruder than it needed to be but you get the idea

[Granite26]

Yes, enslaving the souls of your parents to make some fucking knickknacks fits a civ that punishes plain torture with the death penalty. Oh yeah

That was ruder than it needed to be but you get the idea

Wraith is my favorite RPG hands down, by a huge margin.  More games, video and otherwise, should look to Oblivion for advice on how to do horror and symbolism.

[kholhaus]

There could be 2 ways to kill ghosts (not spirits, ghosts)

The ghost of sentient can only be killed through giving it it the same mortal wound that did it in.

Hackkenslashen.

[Felblood]

The reason that I advocated making all player characters drop ghosts is that it's predictable and simple and therefore easy to code and debug. It isn't intended to reflect the place of ghosts in the world of DF, but rather provide space for the important groundwork for more lore friendly ghosts to move in and replace them.

As for the actual mechanics, I personally think it would be interesting to see ghosts that are just a SOUL with no material body parts. If speaking ever requires a mouth, things could get more complicated than that.

Using blessed weapons to harm ghosts isn't really any different than using magic weapons mechanically. They'll both have to wait for the magic arc.

[Neonivek]

The difference is intent

A Blessed weapon is blessed, it hurts ghosts by virtue of ghosts being harmed by blessed weapons

A Magic weapon harms ghosts by virtue of being specifically set up to harm them